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February 21st - 23rd Winter Storm


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I hear you on that. We snowcover hounds are apparently rare birds on this forum. We actually have had a pretty decent winter here for snowcover (though its bare sans piles at this moment) though near-winter-long snowcover at this latitude is saved for special winters (1977-78, 1981-82, 2010-11). Speaking of latitude, I think perhaps our northern latitude is why we never get a good sleet storm. No rhyme or reason to it, but I can never recall more than a half inch of pure sleet. The LAF boys and east coast boys have had a few 4"+ sleet storms. And word is...it takes a LOT to melt. Not even in the same ballpark as a dense wet snow. March sun may melt powder at 34F, but it will barely dent sleetpack at 50F. If you get a 4-5" sleet storm in late February at this latitude (no I dont think thats ever happened), you can all-but mark down that shaded areas will have white until April (assuming no March 2012 happens again).

 

It is true...sleet pack makes an awesome white ground cover. DENSE and refreezes alot. It is like having the density of a snowpile spread out everywhere.

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I hear you on that. We snowcover hounds are apparently rare birds on this forum. We actually have had a pretty decent winter here for snowcover (though its bare sans piles at this moment) though near-winter-long snowcover at this latitude is saved for special winters (1977-78, 1981-82, 2010-11). Speaking of latitude, I think perhaps our northern latitude is why we never get a good sleet storm. No rhyme or reason to it, but I can never recall more than a half inch of pure sleet. The LAF boys and east coast boys have had a few 4"+ sleet storms. And word is...it takes a LOT to melt. Not even in the same ballpark as a dense wet snow. March sun may melt powder at 34F, but it will barely dent sleetpack at 50F. If you get a 4-5" sleet storm in late February at this latitude (no I dont think thats ever happened), you can all-but mark down that shaded areas will have white until April (assuming no March 2012 happens again).

 

I think one time I had about 1" of sleet here and it seemed like it lasted forever! It's like throwing a bunch of ice cubes on the ground... going to take awhile during typical winter temperatures. Less air in a sleet pack to warm up vs. snow which has a lot of air in it.

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For comparison purposes, I'm posting the SFC map of February 24, 2007.

 

Now compare with what the 12z GFS shows for next Thursday.

attachicon.gifSnow or ice.gif

 

The difference is that the storm next week is going to be FAR weaker than the February 24, 2007 storm and also that there isn't a duel high pressure system in Canada like on February 24, 2007.

 

 

And far colder with this storm.

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I hear you on that. We snowcover hounds are apparently rare birds on this forum. We actually have had a pretty decent winter here for snowcover (though its bare sans piles at this moment) though near-winter-long snowcover at this latitude is saved for special winters (1977-78, 1981-82, 2010-11). Speaking of latitude, I think perhaps our northern latitude is why we never get a good sleet storm. No rhyme or reason to it, but I can never recall more than a half inch of pure sleet. The LAF boys and east coast boys have had a few 4"+ sleet storms. And word is...it takes a LOT to melt. Not even in the same ballpark as a dense wet snow. March sun may melt powder at 34F, but it will barely dent sleetpack at 50F. If you get a 4-5" sleet storm in late February at this latitude (no I dont think thats ever happened), you can all-but mark down that shaded areas will have white until April (assuming no March 2012 happens again).

I just think that big sleet storms in any given location are rare. Maybe some areas are a bit more prone than others but I don't think I've seen any sort of detailed sleet climatology. Before GHD, I had never seen more than maybe a half inch to inch of sleet.

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12z Euro ensemble mean takes the sfc low from western OK/TX border to just east of DSM. 

 

I'm surprised it takes it that far north with a weakening occluding storm.  Wouldn't it be more likely to track it close to due east?  The mean pressure goes from 1001-1005mb when it makes its trek from the border to Iowa.

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Timing is about right:

 

PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENTNATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE LA CROSSE WI1000 AM CST MON FEB 26 2007...WINTER STORM TOTAL SNOWFALLS......FEBRUARY 23 THROUGH 26...LOCATION             COUNTY       STATE   SNOWFALLWINONA               WINONA        MN      29.5DAKOTA 5NW           WINONA        MN      26.0WINONA 3SSE          WINONA        MN      26.0GALESVILLE 1S        TREMPEALEAU   WI      25.0LANESBORO            FILLMORE      MN      25.0ONTARIO              VERNON        WI      24.0WEST SALEM           LA CROSSE     WI      23.9PRESTON              FILLMORE      MN      22.8LA CROSSE NWS        LA CROSSE     WI      22.4

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I'm surprised it takes it that far north with a weakening occluding storm.  Wouldn't it be more likely to track it close to due east?  The mean pressure goes from 1001-1005mb when it makes its trek from the border to Iowa.

 

I know it makes no sense why it wouldn't head to the ENE where there is less resistance from the high pressure to the north!

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I can only remember one winter where we had more than just  glazing of sleet on the ground from a given storm..  I don't remember what year, but, I do remember the parking lot at school, and the neighbor's driveway, as well as ours, had frozen tire tracks, and made driving on/through them difficult.  I remember hacking away at the stuff on the driveway with my dad and brothers, trying to get it taken up. Still remember the "clang" of the scraper blade. It also seemed to take forever to melt. 

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18Z GFS looking a little better.

EDIT: Spoke to soon.

 

Haha, I was just about to say the same thing! Almost thought it was going back to what it was yesterday.

 

Well it's better up this way through 156 hr.

 

0°C line doesn't get as far north. Low over STL at 156hr.

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Haha, I was just about to say the same thing! Almost thought it was going back to what it was yesterday.

 

Well it's better up this way through 156 hr.

 

0°C line doesn't get as far north. Low over STL at 156hr.

 

Yep, just wish it wasn't weakening.  As of now these solutions are still nice for snow, less of a wind potential, which is good I guess.  I just get a feeling subsequent runs will continually cut back on moisture as this heads E/ENE.

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Just wanted to drop in and say, it'd be nice if we could get some expertise from this board on the possible severe threat next Thursday in the Arklatex eastward into the Lower MS Valley and TN Valley over in Central/Western, considering I know there are plenty of knowledgeable severe posters from here. There appears to be some rather alarming signals coming from the model suite.

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I thought this run was going to better for snow in northern IN.

 

 

I bet you can! :P Mr. "I got 40" of LES this winter so far!"

 

40 inches? Is that it? :P I actually think it's closer to 50 inches of lake effect and 15 inches of synoptic snow (most of that from last Friday's storm..lol) We are up to about 65 inches or so from the season. Pretty big jump from where we were. However, like last winter, we haven't maintained a really deep snowpack because it keeps raining.

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40 inches? Is that it? :P I actually think it's closer to 50 inches of lake effect and 15 inches of synoptic snow (most of that from last Friday's storm..lol) We are up to about 65 inches or so from the season. Pretty big jump from where we were. However, like last winter, we haven't maintained a really deep snowpack because it keeps raining.

 

Lol. I didn't realize it was quite that much LES. You might hit your average by April!

 

---

 

LEhS looks good for a time along Lake Michigan as the low pulls across IN.

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18z GFS would be a kick in the nuts for here. Better precip skirts north and south of LAF.  

 

Any who, previously mentioned...but the 144 hour map of the 12z Euro ensemble mean is quite interesting. Surface map has the look of being "boxed in", looking up north...while the 500 maps have the "squeezed look". Strange storm.

 

12zecmwfens850mbTSLPUS144.gif

 

12zecmwfens500mbHGHTNA144.gif

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18z GFS would be a kick in the nuts for here. Better precip skirts north and south of LAF.  

 

Any who, previously mentioned...but the 144 hour map of the 12z Euro ensemble mean is quite interesting. Surface map has the look of being "boxed in", looking up north...while the 500 maps have the "squeezed look". Strange storm.

 

Aren't those maps showing the "bowling ball" look?

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