MJO812 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Yea so much for this big threat, I suppose a lot can change but things right now are meh. Still have time for it to trend favorable. Lets start praying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntenseBlizzard2014 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Due to the progressive nature of this winter, a strong block of this magnitude will not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJO812 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 PNA NAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJO812 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 HPC RELIED ON THE 00Z/16 GEFS MEAN FOR THE FRONTS AND PRESSURES FORDAYS 3 THROUGH 7. THE GEFS MEAN HONORS THE INCREASE IN BLOCKINESSBEST OF THE MOST RECENT GLOBAL NUMERICAL GUIDANCE, PARTICULARLYWITH REGARD TO THE WAVE EMERGING FROM THE SOUTHWEST MID PERIOD.EXPECT THIS WAVE TO STAY SQUASHED AS IT MOVES ACROSS THE GREATPLAINS AND MIDWEST, WITH AN ULTIMATE MILLER TYPE B REDEVELOPMENTOFF THE MID ATLANTIC COAST BY DAY 7. THIS TRACK SHOULD RESULT INONE OF THE MORE EXPANSIVE AREAS OF SNOW AND ICE THIS WINTERSEASON, WITH A SHELF OF POLAR AIR AVAILABLE FOR THE OVERRUNNING OFMOISTURE FROM THE GULF OF MEXICO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJO812 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 you meant wishcasting What? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntenseBlizzard2014 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 HPC In other words, this storm will most likely stay intact, but it will be pushed well south of the 40N line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow_Miser Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 12z GFS has a somewhat more robust system than prior runs. Ice event for the NW Burbs this run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJO812 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Weak coastal forms off the NJ coast at 162. It's warm though with the 0c line near NYC with moderate precip. It's better on this run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEG NAO Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 HPC going for next to nothing here later next week http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/qpf/97ep48iwbg_fill.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntenseBlizzard2014 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Weak coastal forms off the NJ coast at 162. It's warm though with the 0c line near NYC with moderate precip. It's better on this run. It'll be knocked down 100 miles south of it's current position in the future runs, but not sheared out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJO812 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 HPC going for next to nothing here later next week http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/qpf/97ep48iwbg_fill.gif How did they do with today's storm? It's a weak away . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntenseBlizzard2014 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 How did they do with today's storm? It's a weak away . Not so good recently. There were going all out nearly 48 hours ago with a 40-70% Chance of >1" of snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEG NAO Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 How did they do with today's storm? It's a weak away . well we got nothing from this storm - good wording weak - yes thats what next weeks system is forecasted to be as of right now - and its less then a wEaK away - sure things can change ................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJO812 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 well we got nothing from this storm - good wording weak - yes thats what next weeks system is forecasted to be as of right now - and its less then a wEaK away - sure things can change ................... The one thing that is concerning is the PNA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEG NAO Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 The one thing that is concerning is the PNA. according to DT a few days ago the PNA in this type of pattern is not a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cast4 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 according to DT a few days ago the PNA in this type of pattern is not a problem I wouldn't say its not a problem, but the NAO is the #1 teleconnection during this time period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEG NAO Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I wouldn't say its not a problem, but the NAO is the #1 teleconnection during this time period. of course - so explain why it is ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntenseBlizzard2014 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I wouldn't say its not a problem, but the NAO is the #1 teleconnection during this time period. Better hope the -NAO is slightly East Based. This is when a situation like this actually needs it. Getting an Extremely West Based -NAO will either tear this storm to shreds or it'll push it down to VA/NC and barely stay alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEG NAO Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I wouldn't say its not a problem, but the NAO is the #1 teleconnection during this time period. here go to 7:50 in this video and he explains why the PNA neither helps or hurts us: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wxoutlooksblog Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Better hope the -NAO is slightly East Based. This is when a situation like this actually needs it. Getting an Extremely West Based -NAO will either tear this storm to shreds or it'll push it down to VA/NC and barely stay alive. You can have a major snowstorm for NYC without one or even two of the elements that make a storm likely along the east coast. You can have it without negative NAO, you can have it without a +PNA, you can have it without a 50/50 low. These factors just make a storm more likely to occur but do not necessarily mean that a storm IS going to occur. You can also have ALL the favorable elements for a major snowstorm and NOT have a major snowstorm. There are exceptions to every rule in this game. In fact, I think one of the most requried features on the map/s are the cold surface high pressure system to the north/nw of us, but there have been rare exceptions to that too. WX/PT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJO812 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 12z GGEM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zir0b Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I don't think this is looking like a big storm anymore but a decent chance of a 2-4/4-8 event Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEG NAO Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 You can have a major snowstorm for NYC without one or even two of the elements that make a storm likely along the east coast. You can have it without negative NAO, you can have it without a +PNA, you can have it without a 50/50 low. These factors just make a storm more likely to occur but do not necessarily mean that a storm IS going to occur. You can also have ALL the favorable elements for a major snowstorm and NOT have a major snowstorm. There are exceptions to every rule in this game. In fact, I think one of the most requried features on the map/s are the cold surface high pressure system to the north/nw of us, but there have been rare exceptions to that too. WX/PT exactly - the high has to be the constant and all the other indicies are variables - here is a good article explaining http://www.nationalweatherstation.com/2013/02/14/where-are-all-the-big-snow-storms-a-quick-lesson-in-weather-patterns-and-looking-ahead/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow_Miser Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 GGEM has a lot of precipitation into the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntenseBlizzard2014 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 The GGEM continues the Miller B theme for the 23rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJO812 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allsnow Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Euro is pretty meh for Friday. Carves it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJO812 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Dt says all the models were wrong at 0z. This discussion will focus on the potential event for February 22 over the Middle Atlantic states and whether not the models from early Saturday morning have handled the situation correctly are not. As you will see in this discussion I believe most of the weather models have screw this up mostly because of the unusual weather pattern developing. I believe there is an ice storm coming for a good portion of VA NC and perhaps Maryland FEB 22. However the weather models early Saturday morning to the casual observer appear to be substantially different from what they have been showing on Thursday and Friday . This first image is the 0z SATURDAY GFS Model at 500 MB. (That's about half way up in the atmosphere and as pretty close to the Jetstream level) . This map is pretty self explanatory. We can see the large Upwepr Low over the Rockies which it probably bringing that area blizzard on the 20th of February. The system is trying to move out into the Plains but there is a problem. One of the big flaws in the GFS Model is that it OVER evelop features ... especially large Upper and surface Lows. In this case because the GFS model is probably over developing the huge upper Low over Maine and southeastern Canada... the Model ends up altering the entire pattern. The super intense low over southeastern Canada and the large LOW / trough over the Rockies cause the model to develop a very strong RIDGE -- the RED LINES -- over the eastern Plains and the Midwest. The 0z GFS actually extends the RIDGE into Southern Canada! Of course the system in the Rockies over Colorado is trying to come east the causes another piece of energy coming down from Alaska that is trying to shove the system over Colorado eastward. http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1aqbof/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/gfs_namer_132_500_vort_ht.gif In this next image the GFS model (162 hours) it tries to resolve this dilemma by lifting the large and strong low pressure area over Colorado north eastward into Minnesota... In an attempt to go over the top of the RIDGE! To be fair to the GFS ....it is not only the GFS model which does this sort of thing but all weather models when you have two large Upper Lows next to each other ALL models.. ALL ofmthem have problems resolving how to handle this sort of situation. As we will see the European model also is mishandling this as well. As I stated several times in the video on Wednesday and over the past week... One of the big rules in the weather business is that you cannot have two large upper low in close proximity to each other. http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1aqbof/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/gfs_namer_162_500_vort_ht.gif Here is the European model from early Saturday morning -- the 0z run ( which comes out 1-2am). The European model at 120 hours is pretty similar to what the GFS is showing. We can see the large powerful storm over the great basin ( NV / UT area). Then we can see the large Upper Low Maine and southeastern Canada. And just like the GFS Model.. A large gap or BULGE has developed between these two systems over the Plains andthe Midwest ( black squggly line) which again extends into South Central Canada. http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1aqbof/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/0zEC120HR.gifAt day6 The European model tries to resolve this dilemma the same way the GFS does.. Instead of trying to undercut the RIDGE... The European model attends to go over the top of the RIDGE which is a Meteorological impossibility. As we can see on this map AT DAY 6... the top of the Ridge extends almost into Western Canada... So it is not at all possible for this Low over NV to take a track from NV to COL to MT to Alaska http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1aqbof/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/0ZEC144.gif Indeed by day 7 the European model has the low parked over Montana and North Dakota and the ridge extends into Hudson's bay Canada. It is possible that a piece of the LOW over Nevada Utah and Colorado may end up getting trapped over Montana but the main energy is going to undercut the RIDGE and not try and go over. http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1aqbof/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/0Z168EC.gif SUMMARY.. All the operational or regular models solutions -- the operational G FS the operational European -- from early Saturday morning screw this up big time. The European ensemble handle it much better as does the Canadian model. lets see what the 12z Models are doing ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zir0b Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Euro is pretty meh for Friday. Carves it up Per DT's discussion it looks like the GGEM would have the right idea in the handling of this complex pattern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowGoose69 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Per DT's discussion it looks like the GGEM would have the right idea in the handling of this complex pattern Its ridiculous what the 12Z Euro does, it tries to slam the storm into this in Canada..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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