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WidreMann told us it was gonna snow thread


LithiaWx

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The new Euro is wetter than the 00z run, although not as wet as the GFS/GGEM.

 

The 0.25 to 0.5 area is across SE Va, eastern NC (Monroe to FAY to RDU to ORF east and south of there), also over upstate SC, most of the rest of Va/NC/SC in the 0.1 to 0.25 range. Eastern Ga in the 0.05 to 0.1 as well as the rain shadow area of the NC northern foothills.

You not sweating the old EE rule. Or is it null since we are inside 24 hours.

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Question concerning the GGEM:  Is the highlighted area on this map what is being discussed concerning lee trough enhancement?  This little circle of precip seems to blossom in the lee of the mountains on both the GGEM and GFS as the rest of the system pulls off to the east.

 

O4Yixlk.png

 

Edit:  Sorry, wrong image posted at first.

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Question concerning the GGEM:  Is the highlighted area on this map what is being discussed concerning lee trough enhancement?  This little circle of precip seems to blossom in the lee of the mountains on both the GGEM and GFS as the rest of the system pulls off to the east.

 

O4Yixlk.png

 

Edit:  Sorry, wrong image posted at first.

Yes.

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Yes.

 

Thanks for the quick response.  Would you (or anyone else) offer me a little meteorology 101 on why this enhancement occurs?  Is it a basic upslope effect, but just from the other direction?  Typically, we're (piedmont of NC in lee of Apps) downsloped from systems coming from the NW, but since this one is digging from the south do the mountains to our west actually increase precipitation?  That's my thoughts on why it might occur, but I wanted someone with more knowledge to verify this.

 

Thanks.

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Thanks for the quick response.  Would you (or anyone else) offer me a little meteorology 101 on why this enhancement occurs?  Is it a basic upslope effect, but just from the other direction?  Typically, we're (piedmont of NC in lee of Apps) downsloped from systems coming from the NW, but since this one is digging from the south do the mountains to our west actually increase precipitation?  That's my thoughts on why it might occur, but I wanted someone with more knowledge to verify this.

 

Thanks.

Can be for multiple reasons.  This site explains pretty well how it can work.  Text below is copied from this link...

http://www.theweatherprediction.com/habyhints/129/

 

 

WHAT IS A LEE-SIDE TROUGH (LOW)? METEOROLOGIST JEFF HABY

A lee-side trough (low) is commonly taught as caused by the stretching of a column of air as it descends on the lee-ward side of highly elevated terrain such as the Rocky Mountains. This stretching causes a spin-up of vorticity and a resulting upper level divergence. Lee-side cyclones can intensify over time as they propagate with the upper level flow and can initiate cyclogenesis. A downslope flow will be most intense if the windflow is perpendicular to the mountain range and the winds have a high velocity. Understanding how this produces a low can be complicated by other processes that occur with a downsloping flow. First, a downsloping flow produces adiabatic warming. Air warms at the dry adiabatic lapse rate as it sinks. This should cause temperatures to warm and heights to RISE (thermal expansion). Second, a downsloping wind is associated with stability (RH decreases, downward vertical velocities). How does a trough develop where air is sinking and stabilizing?

Theory 1: Mid-level winds which come in contact with elevated terrain suddenly experiences friction. This causes a directional change in the wind speed (ageostrophic flow). Once the air moves on the lee-ward side of the mountains it no longer experiences the friction. The friction over the mountains creates a shortwave that advects with the upper level flow. This creates a lee-side low.

Theory 2: Although the sinking air is warming at the dry adiabatic lapse rate on the lee-side, the air is still colder than the air it is replacing (katabatic wind). This creates a lee-side low since a layer of colder air is related to lower heights.

Theory 3: Flow over a mountain produces a spin-up of vorticity due to a stretching of air as the lower levels of the atmosphere fall on the lee-side (most common argument). What is troubling, is that I have often noticed lee-side lows with no vorticity showing on the 500-mb model progs and strong downward UVV's.

Theory 4: A combination of 2 or more of the previous theories. The most impressive lee-side lows occur when a pre-existing shortwave moves perpendicular over a mountain range.

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Can be for multiple reasons.  This site explains pretty well how it can work.  Text below is copied from this link...

http://www.theweatherprediction.com/habyhints/129/

 

 

Thanks for that information.  Very helpful.

 

I am not so sure a Lee trough is entirely a good thing when it comes to BL issues.

 

I suppose that's due to the adiabatic warming that Moto referenced in the attached article?  Downsloping --> Warming.

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Comparing 17z RAP to 12z run (something I did with our last non-event which yielded some important clues)  I notice is that the 500 mb trough is trending sharper and is tilting less positively. Also, the trend is for the Texas s/w to be weaker and the Plains s/w to be stronger.

 

18z looks like it's coming in slightly sharper as well. 

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Comparing 17z RAP to 12z run (something I did with our last non-event which yielded some important clues)  I notice is that the 500 mb trough is trending sharper and is tilting less positively. Also, the trend is for the Texas s/w to be weaker and the Plains s/w to be stronger.

 

Yeah Skip.  I remember you sniffing out a potential problem with that last storm.  From what you are saying, this time it looks like you are indicating that this may go more favorably than modeled. Right?

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The WV is making me think we might have a bigger deal as the day goes on. The energy  in the plains looks to be diving in a north to south direction and it is farther west. What this may mean is we might have a bigger storm and it may be delayed for a few hours and slower. I don't have a dog in the fight so it really doesn't effect me, but those to the east of the Triad, Char., Columbia, and eastern Ga. thing just got a lot better for you guys in my opinion.

 

http://www.goes.noaa.gov/GSSLOOPS/ecwv.html

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