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February 13-14th Potential Winter Storm Threat Discussion


Zir0b

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OK let me be more clear , the NAM hasnt moved in 5 days , same 996 off AC , We agree that upton and mt holly dont buy the hyper qpf that the nam just spit out . I said i hate to see the nam nail a forecast 5 days out and blow it inside 24 hrs in with high qpf ... Then i went onto say upton and mt holly with there 1 - 3 is less than 4 inch NCEP probabilities that they paint across the area . So figuring out who has the better handle THE LOCAL OFFICES maybe BL ISSUES ? or hydro center .

MT Holly has to see BL issue as well and  not buying even the 12z NAM

 

I don't understand one thing that you wrote.

 

 

 

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Yes, the GFS is north. BUT, look at 10m temps, guys. It's basically light to occasionally moderate snow that accumulates only on grassy surfaces..maybe 1 to 3 in...with surface temps around 34.  This is hardly an event. It's just too damn warm at the surface.

Ehh idk, the sun will be down and there is still snow cover, I think temps will get pretty close to freezing at the ground.

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HPC's snowfall products are crap. Have you noticed how they are created? They simply take the 60% contours of the 4, 8,12 in. snowfall forecasts from the SREF and literally outline them with low, med, high risks. There is little to no effort that go into making those products unfortunately. Hands down, I would run with the NWS local products. 

 

OK let me be more clear , the NAM hasnt moved in 5 days , same 996 off AC , We agree that upton and mt holly dont buy the hyper qpf that the nam just spit out . I said i hate to see the nam nail a forecast 5 days out and blow it inside 24 hrs in with high qpf ... Then i went onto say upton and mt holly with there 1 - 3 is less than 4 inch NCEP probabilities that they paint across the area . So figuring out who has the better handle THE LOCAL OFFICES maybe BL ISSUES ? or hydro center .

MT Holly has to see BL issue as well and  not buying even the 12z NAM

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Yes, the GFS is north. BUT, look at 10m temps, guys. It's basically light to occasionally moderate snow that accumulates only on grassy surfaces..maybe 1 to 3 in...with surface temps around 34.  This is hardly an event. It's just too damn warm at the surface.

The snow looks to enhance when it's at its peak and over the open water and it's at night. It might not be a powdery snow but it should be able to accumulate I would think.

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HPC's snowfall products are crap. Have you noticed how they are created? They simply take the 60% contours of the 4, 8,12 in. snowfall forecasts from the SREF and literally outline them with low, med, high risks. There is little to no effort that go into making those products unfortunately. Hands down, I would run with the NWS local products. 

 

and HPCs latest maps slashed the chance of decent snow anyway.

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Yes, the GFS is north. BUT, look at 10m temps, guys. It's basically light to occasionally moderate snow that accumulates only on grassy surfaces..maybe 1 to 3 in...with surface temps around 34.  This is hardly an event. It's just too damn warm at the surface.

What about for inland areas?

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Yes, the GFS is north. BUT, look at 10m temps, guys. It's basically light to occasionally moderate snow that accumulates only on grassy surfaces..maybe 1 to 3 in...with surface temps around 34.  This is hardly an event. It's just too damn warm at the surface.

 

 

Temperatures in the mid and upper levels are quite cold and our dewpoints will be quite low, and the precipitation falls at night. We'll easily cool off quite quickly. Plus, the GFS doesn't have the resolution to resolve cooling via heavy precipitation. It busted way too warm in parts of Oklahoma today at the surface.

 

Also, that product is the 2m temps and 10m winds, not 10m temps. 

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HPC's snowfall products are crap. Have you noticed how they are created? They simply take the 60% contours of the 4, 8,12 in. snowfall forecasts from the SREF and literally outline them with low, med, high risks. There is little to no effort that go into making those products unfortunately. Hands down, I would run with the NWS local products. 

 

Yeah pretty much, I never look at those things, the WFOs likely don't either as they often can disagree with them by alot.

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Yes, the GFS is north. BUT, look at 10m temps, guys. It's basically light to occasionally moderate snow that accumulates only on grassy surfaces..maybe 1 to 3 in...with surface temps around 34. This is hardly an event. It's just too damn warm at the surface.

just took a look at the gfs 2m temps and yea it's ugly, I don't trust the nam, always overdone and the rgem is still se of the nam's track as snowgoose pointed out. I think the area will be lucky to see an inch to be honest and the euro may actually win this battle.
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If you drop .50 of liquid  into CNJ after dark  with dew points in the low 20`s , 850`s at minus 1 ( my bad )  and start the surface out at 40 , I  think its more than the 1 inch  of snow MT HOLLY has  in Monmouth County .

Thats my argument .

 

If the Euro is right then  the whole thing falls apart .

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If you drop .50 of liquid  into CNJ after dark  with dew points in the low 20`s , 850`s at minus 1 ( my bad )  and start the surface out at 40 , I  think its more than the 1 inch  of snow MT HOLLY has  in Monmouth County .

Thats my argument .

 

If the Euro is right then  the whole thing falls apart .

 

 

because they think it is not going to be .50 of precip

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If we don't get much snow, it's going to because of the track being too far south, not because of temperatures. I mean if we get a graze of .1" of QPF, then our temperatures won't cool off much, but as long as we get steady precipitation, we'll be fine temperature wise. 

 

 

Strongly agree. Right now I still think the Euro is having issues, and we're going to have a zone of solid vv's as far north as sern PA and NJ tomorrow night. 850's are supportive and the skew-t's I saw off the NAM/GFS clearly indicate that steady precip will cool the boundary layer. Light 15-20 dbz stuff won't do it, but if we get moderate snow in this airmass, that will be sufficient to dynamically chill the column to 32/32 or so.

 

Remember the ECMWF hasn't been great w/ sern stream events this winter. A few weeks ago it had 0.25"+ into PHL/NYC right up until 12 hrs before the storm while every other model had us in virtually nothing. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the Euro bust.

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