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blizzard of 2013 discussion


forkyfork

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Verbatim, that smells of pingers to me. Notice how the sounding kisses the 00z line for about 100mb. If vvs are through the roof it may be an isothermal snow sounding, but anytime I see those soundings I think some IP mixed.

 

Of course the NAM could be too warm because it's too far west which changes things.

Thanks man, after this point temp crash 5-7C

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Likely snow with some sleet maybe mixing in. Nearly saturated all the way to 250mb and look at the sfc wind direction, NE, maybe more like NNE. 850mb winds are also north of east. That tells me that temps at that level and below are rapidly cooling.

 

Well the model could be too warm, sure. But, just talking about that exampke verbatim. Usually if that sounding is for real, there are pingers.

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I'd say reduce NAM by 33% and shift it 25 miles ENE..  Congrats NYC 

 

The Idea is likely correct, death band on the Northwest edge  If it's wrong all mesoscale models are junk because they all show it!!

There's almost always a huge band that sets up over NNJ or ENJ in storms like this-helped by the deformation on the west edge of the heavy precip, higher ratios, and terrain. I expect nothing different this time. I was probably not generous enough for snow up there.

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Well the model could be too warm, sure. But, just talking about that exampke verbatim. Usually if that sounding is for real, there are pingers.

 

More so though if that warm layer is associated with W or SW flow, a near 0C layer with N-NE or E winds is much more likely to verify cooler than warmer.

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Haha, 40"+ for all of Passaic County and Northern Morris County on that map.

There you go the typical West Milford Jacpot! ;) Anything over 30" in reality would make me rather nervous about my roof. Now in all seriousness the NAM is most likely well over done with qpf but taken with all other data just more support for a major snowfall. Still wiggle room on final amounts and exact placement of highest totals. Enjoy all!

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I know its the NAM clown map, but looking at the snowfall accumulations there looks to be an extremely sharp cutoff in extreme eastern Middlesex Co. portions of Monmouth Co NJ and Richmond NY, does anyone think that is possible?

 

 

I'm not a fan of those cutoffs it shows over middlesex and Monmouth.

Thank god other models are colder.

You've got a vertically stacked low of the coast of NJ/SNE  with a 1040 mb high in Canada and you are worrying about a cutoff that an inaccurate map shows? Relax, this is a snow nuclear bomb from TTN N&E, perhaps even PHL N& E 

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Lol Ace telling All snow hes too low on snow amounts. Think thats what is going to make this a historic storm... that comment right there

im always on the big ones...go big or go home :snowing: . Someone in N NJ and SW CT will report 30"+ totals...

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Haha, 40"+ for all of Passaic County and Northern Morris County on that map.

There you go the typical West Milford Jacpot! ;) Anything over 30" in reality would make me rather nervous about my roof. Now in all seriousness the NAM is most likely well over done with qpf but taken with all other data just more support for a major snowfall. Still wiggle room on final amounts and exact placement of highest totals. Enjoy all!

Haha West Milford seems to get 30" quite easily :P

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Look at this data very impressive just a small area of warming for a short period of time.  In all my years of forecasting I have never seen a blizzard forecast like this.  This can easily be very historic  and again the weather just keeps getting more extreme,

 

   Station ID: KNYC Lat:   40.78 Long:  -73.96                                                         NAM Model Run:  0Z FEB  8, 2013                                                                                                                                                                                                                         Forecast Hours:    0hr    6hr   12hr   18hr   24hr   30hr   36hr   42hr   48hr                                              Sfc Prs(mb):    1024.3 1020.8 1014.9 1007.2  995.1  993.0  997.7 1004.8 1012.5                                              Mean SLP (mb):  1030.4 1027.0 1020.9 1013.2 1001.2  999.2 1003.9 1011.0 1018.7                                              2m agl Tmp (F):   28.9   30.0   33.3   33.6   31.5   24.8   20.8   23.2   20.1                                              2m agl Dewpt(F):  16.8   27.1   32.2   32.4   30.3   23.8   18.5   18.0   13.2                                              2m agl RH (%):      60     89     96     96     95     96     91     80     74                                              10m agl Dir:       102     82     84     61     31    343    334    334    336                                              10m agl Spd(kt):     5     11     13     22     30     23     26     25     19                                              6hr Precip (in):  0.00   0.00   0.02   0.31   1.32   1.31   0.58   0.01   0.00                                              AccumPrecip(in):  0.00   0.00   0.02   0.33   1.65   2.96   3.55   3.55   3.55                                              Sfc CAPE (J/kg):   0.0    1.1    0.0    0.0    1.1    0.0    0.2   11.5    0.9                                              Sfc CINH (J/kg):  -0.2   -0.1   -1.3   -0.1    0.0    0.0   -0.6    0.0   -0.4                                              0-3km Hel(J/kg): 242.7  379.0  508.4  672.8  664.1 1286.4  100.2  207.5  105.6                                              Precip H20 (in):  0.38   0.51   0.62   0.73   0.78   0.52   0.39   0.35   0.15                                              Lifted Index©:  18.9   16.3   12.7    9.6    8.7   18.2   18.4   15.7   14.3                                              700mb VV(-ub/s):  -0.2    0.6    0.1    2.6   21.8   16.1    2.1   -2.5   -1.5                                              Thk1000-500mb(m)5339.9 5353.1 5385.2 5414.0 5433.4 5339.8 5272.8 5281.7 5282.3                                              Thk1000-850mb(m)1272.2 1286.4 1298.1 1302.4 1294.0 1266.0 1254.1 1252.9 1257.6                                              Thk850-700mb(m):1519.8 1519.1 1522.0 1539.2 1549.3 1510.8 1500.5 1505.8 1514.5                                              SWEAT Index:      63.2  226.5  251.4  109.8  147.3  151.9  189.9  142.5  162.3                                              Total Totals Idx  22.9   26.4   34.9   38.7   36.2   22.7   22.4   27.8   30.2                                              Frz Hgt(ft amsl)   154    154    857    718    154    154    154    154    154                                              0WetBlbHgt(amsl) -1000  -1000    636    558  -1000  -1000  -1000  -1000  -1000                                              Equil Prs (mb):   1024   1021   1015   1007    995    993    998   1005   1012                                              Equil Hgt(amsl):   154    154    154    154    154    154    154    154    154                                              Hail Size(in):    0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00                                              Conv Wind Gust:    7.0    6.9   23.0   19.7   12.3   10.7   19.2   16.8   15.7                                              Showalter Index:  19.4   18.2   12.9   10.0   11.4   21.0   21.4   18.4   15.3                                              Cap Strength©:-999.9 -999.9 -999.9 -999.9 -999.9 -999.9   14.7   11.8 -999.9                                              Storm Dir (deg):   288    250    230    174    119     62     34     21     14                                              Storm Spd (kts):    16     17     20     24     28     25     42     37     36                                              2m HeatIndex(F):    29     30     33     34     32     25     21     23     20                                              2m WindChill(F):    23     20     23     21     16      9      2      6      4                                                                                                                                                                         1000mb GPH (m):     238    212    166    105      8     -8     30     86    145                                                                                                                                                                          950mb GPH (m):     643    620    577    516    417    395    429    485    542                                              950mb Temp ©:   -5.7   -2.9   -1.0   -1.5   -2.5   -6.5   -9.5   -9.6  -10.2                                              950mb Dewpt©:  -12.0   -4.2   -1.0   -1.6   -2.8   -7.4  -10.8  -11.6  -13.1                                              950mb RH (%):       61     91    100     99     98     94     90     86     79                                              950mb Dir:         121    115    109     76     42    355    339    337    341                                              950mb Speed(kt):    14     25     32     43     54     38     43     38     34                                                                                                                                                                          900mb GPH (m):    1064   1048   1008    948    846    815    845    900    958                                              900mb Temp ©:   -7.3   -3.1   -1.1    1.3   -2.2   -8.9  -11.0  -11.7   -9.6                                              900mb Dewpt©:  -19.7   -4.1   -1.1    1.3   -2.8   -9.7  -12.4  -13.9  -15.8                                              900mb RH (%):       37     93    100     99     96     93     89     84     61                                              900mb Dir:         163    162    142    106     61     17    356    348    357                                              900mb Speed(kt):    11     25     35     47     70     51     59     50     49                                                                                                                                                                          850mb GPH (m):    1510   1499   1464   1408   1302   1258   1285   1339   1402                                              850mb Temp ©:   -6.3   -5.6   -2.5   -0.3   -0.6   -8.3   -9.7   -9.5   -6.9                                              850mb Dewpt©:  -14.0   -9.3   -2.5   -0.3   -0.6   -9.1  -10.7  -12.0  -16.4                                              850mb RH (%):       55     75    100    100    100     95     93     82     47                                              850mb Dir:         217    188    170    122     81     42     22      9    355                                              850mb Speed(kt):    13     24     31     40     65     65     69     47     52                                                                                                                                                                          800mb GPH (m):    1985   1974   1942   1891   1787   1729   1753   1810   1876                                              800mb Temp ©:   -4.9   -5.2   -5.6   -1.7   -0.1   -8.2   -9.1   -7.3   -5.7                                              800mb Dewpt©:  -22.7   -9.5   -8.4   -1.7   -0.1   -8.9  -10.1  -10.4  -21.5                                              800mb RH (%):       24     71     81    100    100     95     92     79     28                                              800mb Dir:         245    224    169    132     96     60     23    354    356                                              800mb Speed(kt):    17     20     21     31     49     65     65     50     53                                                                                                                                                                          750mb GPH (m):    2492   2479   2447   2403   2303   2231   2254   2311   2381                                              750mb Temp ©:   -5.7   -6.2   -6.2   -3.7   -1.3   -7.0   -8.9   -8.4   -6.6                                              750mb Dewpt©:  -10.7  -10.9  -13.1   -4.1   -1.3   -7.3   -9.9  -11.8  -25.5                                              750mb RH (%):       68     70     58     97    100     97     92     77     21                                              750mb Dir:         260    229    183    143    105     75      7    356    351                                              750mb Speed(kt):    22     19     10     26     39     39     66     59     49                                                                                                                                                                          700mb GPH (m):    3029   3018   2986   2947   2851   2769   2785   2845   2917                                              700mb Temp ©:   -8.7   -8.2   -6.9   -5.5   -3.5   -7.6  -11.8   -9.9   -9.7                                              700mb Dewpt©:  -10.5  -10.1   -9.2   -6.0   -3.5   -7.7  -13.2  -13.9  -29.7                                              700mb RH (%):       87     86     84     96    100     99     90     73     18                                              700mb Dir:         274    226    229    170    117     72    360      0    348                                              700mb Speed(kt):    24     17      9     27     29     15     65     60     48                                                                                                                                                                          650mb GPH (m):    3601   3589   3562   3526   3435   3344   3348   3413   3484                                              650mb Temp ©:  -11.3  -11.2   -9.5   -8.5   -6.2   -9.6  -16.3  -13.3  -13.4                                              650mb Dewpt©:  -13.0  -12.9  -10.7   -9.4   -6.2   -9.9  -18.0  -17.2  -35.5                                              650mb RH (%):       87     87     91     93    100     98     87     72     14                                              650mb Dir:         274    242    248    174    129    348      2    355    343                                              650mb Speed(kt):    28     18     19     23     25     10     67     60     50                                                                                                                                                                          600mb GPH (m):    4212   4200   4177   4142   4057   3959   3947   4018   4088                                              600mb Temp ©:  -13.8  -14.3  -12.3  -11.6   -9.6  -12.4  -17.7  -16.4  -17.5                                              600mb Dewpt©:  -15.4  -15.9  -13.6  -12.7   -9.7  -12.9  -19.6  -20.3  -37.9                                              600mb RH (%):       87     88     90     92     99     97     85     72     16                                              600mb Dir:         273    254    240    192    137    351    355    352    338                                              600mb Speed(kt):    32     21     32     28     20     19     58     58     54                                                                                                                                                                          550mb GPH (m):    4869   4856   4838   4805   4724   4619   4597   4668   4733                                              550mb Temp ©:  -17.2  -17.2  -15.6  -15.0  -13.7  -15.6  -18.9  -19.9  -21.9                                              550mb Dewpt©:  -19.7  -20.5  -17.1  -16.3  -14.1  -16.2  -20.9  -24.2  -42.3                                              550mb RH (%):       82     76     88     90     97     95     84     69     15                                              550mb Dir:         269    256    241    211    137      6    357    346    335                                              550mb Speed(kt):    37     27     41     30     19     22     57     53     56                                                                                                                                                                          500mb GPH (m):    5577   5565   5551   5519   5442   5332   5303   5368   5427                                              500mb Temp ©:  -21.6  -20.7  -19.9  -19.6  -18.7  -20.0  -21.4  -24.7  -26.7                                              500mb Dewpt©:  -24.7  -28.2  -21.8  -21.4  -19.5  -21.4  -23.6  -29.5  -46.5                                              500mb RH (%):       77     52     85     86     93     89     83     65     15                                              500mb Dir:         264    259    242    221    141     20     11    338    331                                              500mb Speed(kt):    38     35     47     30     18     22     52     49     59                                                                                                                                                                          450mb GPH (m):    6345   6338   6324   6294   6219   6105   6073   6126   6179                                              450mb Temp ©:  -27.0  -25.1  -25.9  -25.1  -23.9  -25.4  -26.1  -29.6  -32.2                                              450mb Dewpt©:  -30.9  -35.9  -28.2  -27.2  -25.1  -27.6  -28.4  -34.1  -50.0                                              450mb RH (%):       70     37     81     83     90     82     81     66     17                                              450mb Dir:         264    259    240    214    149     34     21    332    328                                              450mb Speed(kt):    39     43     48     34     18     20     39     41     61                                                                                                                                                                          400mb GPH (m):    7183   7183   7166   7138   7067   6948   6914   6957   6998                                              400mb Temp ©:  -33.3  -31.5  -32.4  -31.0  -30.3  -31.5  -32.3  -35.4  -38.2                                              400mb Dewpt©:  -38.7  -38.1  -35.3  -33.4  -31.4  -34.6  -35.2  -38.9  -53.8                                              400mb RH (%):       60     53     76     80     90     74     76     71     19                                              400mb Dir:         264    256    238    205    151     60     29    326    325                                              400mb Speed(kt):    47     51     49     46     20     18     32     32     64                                                                                            
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BTW, look at the H5 vorticity in the area near NYC at 00z. Now look west. Winds in the mid levels coming from the east while winds over ern PA and near PHL coming from the WSW. There is your frontogenesis. So, I could buy a band...but where it sets up is the question.

If it set up there you could enhance it from Orographic lifting also.

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/mrx/research/mar26snow/mar26snow.php

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