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FORECAST DISCUSSION: "The Storm They Couldn't Punt" 2/7-2/9


HM

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Yeah, sounds reasonable, thanks. Usually, and I'm going by memory here, our area sits in the 10-15:1 type of snowfall ratio on the backsides of these things (or during the very beginning when you have a monster Arctic High in place like Feb 03').

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Between 00z-06z on the GFS, the soundings grow pretty impressive across eastern PA into PHL and northern/central NJ. There is a pretty large SGZ for our area with strong frontogensis/mid level convergence. Definitely the increasingly cold profiles / convergence (less wind) means that I was wrong about ratios before. While they may be on the order of 5-10:1 before 00z, they would increase above 10:1 with this back edge late evening / overnight. I'll let the Mt. Holly mets take it from here but it looks like a solid chance at 12-18:1 ratios with this part of the storm.

 

Wanted to comment on this before when you posted...the front end stuff, wherever it is actually snowing, is definitely a wet 10:1 pasting, probably even less...but once the CCB gets involved on the backside there, definitely are looking at excellent ratios...

 

I personally think the watches could be extended southward one county in NJ...particularly Ocean county could use one in my honest opinion..What is criteria there 4" right?

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Do we think that advisories will go into Berks/Schuylkill/Lehigh and even back into Lancaster/Lebanon.  I know it crosses CWAs but just curious if we will even reach that criteria?  I guess lehigh has the best chance?

 

Isn't there already a watch in Schuylkill? I would assume they will put Lehigh Cty. in a watch. 

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Wanted to comment on this before when you posted...the front end stuff, wherever it is actually snowing, is definitely a wet 10:1 pasting, probably even less...but once the CCB gets involved on the backside there, definitely are looking at excellent ratios...

 

I personally think the watches could be extended southward one county in NJ...particularly Ocean county could use one in my honest opinion..What is criteria there 4" right?

4 inches in 12 hrs is the criteria or 6 in 24 for south NJ. Not at work today but usually we have extensive internal discussions on what counties in or out for watches or warnings. Products will be updated around 4 pm. 

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Wanted to comment on this before when you posted...the front end stuff, wherever it is actually snowing, is definitely a wet 10:1 pasting, probably even less...but once the CCB gets involved on the backside there, definitely are looking at excellent ratios...

 

Yes things do substantially improve between 00z-06z down our way but I'm keeping climo in mind too (moisture associated with nor'easters). Our area tends to see influences that increase faceting/aggregating and limit dendrification.

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4 inches in 12 hrs is the criteria or 6 in 24 for south NJ. Not at work today but usually we have extensive internal discussions on what counties in or out for watches or warnings. Products will be updated around 4 pm. 

 

Good stuff, and thanks for the explanation. Hope that didnt come off as challenging you guys, didnt intend it to and I know how much thought you guys put into everything!

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Yes things do substantially improve between 00z-06z down our way but I'm keeping climo in mind too (moisture associated with nor'easters). Our area tends to see influences that increase faceting/aggregating and limit dendrification.

The winds will certainly muddle that...Fair enough. 

 

I remember in jan 2005 how the WAA stuff was very dense, likely 10-1 type stuff with easily an inch of liquid equaling 10"...Then the CCB on the back end overnight and early the next morning was pure powder and great snow growth...about 6" more of it couldnt have been more than 0.3 or 0.4 liquid.

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The winds will certainly muddle that...Fair enough. 

 

I remember in jan 2005 how the WAA stuff was very dense, likely 10-1 type stuff with easily an inch of liquid equaling 10"...Then the CCB on the back end overnight and early the next morning was pure powder and great snow growth...about 6" more of it couldnt have been more than 0.3 or 0.4 liquid.

 

Yeah I think tomorrow night we could max out at 18:1 in far NE PA / NW NJ to 12:1 down in the PHL-S NJ area. The SREF guidance was pretty much this outcome, probabilistically. As for my thoughts, I should warn that I have no BUFKIT at my disposal right now! womp...

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