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December 19-20 Talking Points - Part 3


earthlight

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It seems you have been saying this almost every run---terrible consistency with the models on this threat.

MDstorm

But this was expected considering a questionable chunk of a sprawling and retrograding PV complex is/was progged to drop into a deepening longwave trof with uncertain "southern stream" s/w involvement. I remember reading and writing specifically that huge model flips would be the rule.

And I expect these oscillations to continue, with decreasing amplitude.

Each individual run is kind of like reaching into a bag of ensemble members and picking out a single run. The spread is a rough indication of the possible solutions next time around.

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I've never seen anything like this before, I know people are going to hold on to the "back and forth" idea and hope it can come back..but with everything sampled I think this is pretty much it. It just so happened to end on the wrong flip. or flop.

I've only been in the real world for three winters, but this clearly takes the cake. Just unbelievable. I need to stick to hurricanes.

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Well I would still like to give it a couple of more model runs before completely throwing in the towel, but the towel is in my hand and the fat lady is warming up her voice in the background.

I've never seen anything like this before, I know people are going to hold on to the "back and forth" idea and hope it can come back..but with everything sampled I think this is pretty much it. It just so happened to end on the wrong flip. or flop.

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I've only been in the real world for three winters, but this clearly takes the cake. Just unbelievable. I need to stick to hurricanes.

Could you imagine a Cat 3 coming up the east coast showing this kind of variability on the models?  It would be a media disaster!  I dont know if thats ever happened (their rarity in general being the reason why.)

* Hurricane Floyd back in 1999 actually did show a lot of variability on the models... as did Edouard back in 1996

I cant quickly remember one that went from OTS to a major hit though-- unless you go to the pre satellite era and include Sept 1938.

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We go from a HECS to a flat storm.:facepalm:

It was way too early to get very excited. I took a quick peek at this board after the 12z run, and decided to not say anything. There was just too much happiness. It's crazy how excited people get at models runs that are for a storm that is still a few days out. With how incredibly inconsistent the models are, I just can't see getting too excited when they show a hit or too depressed when they show a miss. The solution will be different the next run. It's just a waste of energy getting hyped up over model runs that are a few days out or more. It would be different if we had reliable models, but we don't.

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It almost makes you wonder why we have these models in the first place. 60 hours out, there's as much flipflopping as you would expect 180 hours out. Maybe now we should just toss darts at a wall?

Well the basic idea of an east coast gale was nailed down days ago. Obviously the sensible weather for people living on land is highly dependent on the track of specific features, which are much more difficult to model.

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Don't worry, you'll have plenty of hours to sleep in January. And given the pattern you'll probably be nice and warm too.

Well, I'm not sure about that. But the frustration for this event has been some of the worst we've had. I've luckily only had time to follow the event since Wednesday night, however the model inconsistency this week has been insane. I wonder if it has something to do w/ the models being clueless about a record -NAO/AO pattern coupled with a strong la nina, considering it basically hasn't happened since the 1960s.

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Edouard was.  Floyd was not really forecast all that bad.

I remember Floyd being a near-Cat 5 off the SE coast and people were worried it would be a historic storm, but then it meandered out there for days and weakened to a Cat 2 before hitting the Carolinas.

Oh, speaking of that, I just remembered there was another one just a few years ago that was supposed to hit us, but hit down in Virginia instead-- I cant remember the name of it offhand.

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Well, I'm not sure about that. But the frustration for this event has been some of the worst we've had. I've luckily only had time to follow the event since Wednesday night, however the model inconsistency this week has been insane. I wonder if it has something to do w/ the models being clueless about a record -NAO/AO pattern coupled with a strong la nina, considering it basically hasn't happened since the 1960s.

My post was supposed to be sarcastic given everybody calling for a torch, apparently I am as good at being sarcastic as the models are at being consistent.

Frustration level..yes, probably highest it's been in a few years.

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Well, I'm not sure about that. But the frustration for this event has been some of the worst we've had. I've luckily only had time to follow the event since Wednesday night, however the model inconsistency this week has been insane. I wonder if it has something to do w/ the models being clueless about a record -NAO/AO pattern coupled with a strong la nina, considering it basically hasn't happened since the 1960s.

I don't think the amount of time that has passed has anything to do with it. Models just suck at the extremes of blocking patterns and high speed flow, in general.

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I remember Floyd being a near-Cat 5 off the SE coast and people were worried it would be a historic storm, but then it meandered out there for days and weakened to a Cat 2 before hitting the Carolinas.

Oh, speaking of that, I just remembered there was another one just a few years ago that was supposed to hit us, but hit down in Virginia instead-- I cant remember the name of it offhand.

Isabel. But those I don't consider huge busts, because they really fell within the window of model biases. Edouard was a complete bust.

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