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COLD OBS / Forecast


NorEaster27

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Yeah we're basically in an entirely different climate zone compared to 2004. I'm surprised we can still get below freezing.

 

For Islip to get down to +5  (they have not been below zero since 1988) and Westhampton to get down to -7 F....with an ocean and Sound at least 5 to 7 degrees warmer than normal for this time of year...only an inch or two of snow on the ground at the respective stations, and very poor snow cover to the north over New York and New England relative to normal, I would rate that as a pretty decent arctic airmass.  Not an extraordinary one, but a good solid one. 

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Yeah we're basically in an entirely different climate zone compared to 2004. I'm surprised we can still get below freezing.

Bluewave is always trying to play the climate card...global temperatures in 2004 and 2005 were actually warmer than the last two winters, yet those years were able to produce potent arctic outbreaks. 2005 was the warmest year on record for GISS, which is probably his favored source for global temperatures.

I agree about wind direction but the main difference is clearly snow cover...850s during this outbreak got down to almost -23C which is similar to 2009 but I had lows around 8-9F instead of near 0F. Most of our big arctic shots had at least modest snow over. December 2010 was an exception and we also bottomed out in the low teens here with highs around 20F. It's just not possible to go sub zero in NYC without snow on the ground.

Making this a climate issue is absurd, in my opinion, when you l

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Bluewave is always trying to play the climate card...global temperatures in 2004 and 2005 were actually warmer than the last two winters, yet those years were able to produce potent arctic outbreaks. 2005 was the warmest year on record for GISS, which is probably his favored source for global temperatures.

I agree about wind direction but the main difference is clearly snow cover...850s during this outbreak got down to almost -23C which is similar to 2009 but I had lows around 8-9F instead of near 0F. Most of our big arctic shots had at least modest snow over. December 2010 was an exception and we also bottomed out in the low teens here with highs around 20F. It's just not possible to go sub zero in NYC without snow on the ground.

Making this a climate issue is absurd, in my opinion, when you know global temps were very mild in 2004, one of your comparisons.

 

 

Agreed it's a combination of wind direcation and snow cover. Last night it was remarkable how quickly temps plummeted w/ clear/calm conditions but w/ the extra variable of 1-2"+ of fresh snow on the ground. The city doesn't radiate, but if we had decent snow on the ground, it's basically like keeping the air refrigerated as it moved southward. The bare ground certainly has a warming effect.

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Agreed it's a combination of wind direcation and snow cover. Last night it was remarkable how quickly temps plummeted w/ clear/calm conditions but w/ the extra variable of 1-2"+ of fresh snow on the ground. The city doesn't radiate, but if we had decent snow on the ground, it's basically like keeping the air refrigerated as it moved southward. The bare ground certainly has a warming effect.

 

Right now I find myself wondering how much colder it would get in the city if no one plowed or cleared the snow.  If the snow just fell and lay there, how much better would it radiate on a clear night? 

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Interesting the massive differences between our locations in radiational cooling set-ups despite my area being further north and with higher average elevation. I had a low of 12.1F versus your 4.8F. It was still a surprisingly cold night given the snowstorm keeping things cloudy after midnight. We're trying to make a run at another cold night this evening at 16.6/9. 

 

Got all the way down to 4.8 this morning in Bridgewater, the lowest temp I recorded during this cold snap.  Just that little bit of snowcover really helped.

 

A few more pics of the partially frozen Raritan today:

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Agreed it's a combination of wind direcation and snow cover. Last night it was remarkable how quickly temps plummeted w/ clear/calm conditions but w/ the extra variable of 1-2"+ of fresh snow on the ground. The city doesn't radiate, but if we had decent snow on the ground, it's basically like keeping the air refrigerated as it moved southward. The bare ground certainly has a warming effect.

 

I do agree with Bluewave that 1994 had a colder climate, partially because of the Pinatubo eruption. There has been significant warming in the Arctic regions from 1994-2012, and that may explain why January 1994 type temperatures are harder to come by than normal, although that pattern was always an extreme anomaly. 

 

Using climate change to compare to 2004 or 2005 arctic shots, however, doesn't seem sensible. Global temperatures were high during those years, and the arctic cold was more a result of northerly flow and heavier snow cover. 

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Interesting the massive differences between our locations in radiational cooling set-ups despite my area being further north and with higher average elevation. I had a low of 12.1F versus your 4.8F. It was still a surprisingly cold night given the snowstorm keeping things cloudy after midnight. We're trying to make a run at another cold night this evening at 16.6/9. 

 

Higher elevation can prevent the best radiational cooling, as you may be aware.  Cold air pools.  We've had some incredible cold air pooling out here in the west, though of course we do have more extreme elevation differences.  Even still, it can matter even with modest differences.

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On clear, calm nights, it will almost always be colder on the floor of a valley than on the surrounding hilltops as an inversion will set up. 

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I'm estimating 20.9, as I think the NWS projections for Sunday (34/20) are too high - that would put it right at 2007 - could be above or below. 

If today's high at CPK is 33, then the week's average is 20.92 - not sure if the 2007 average of 20.9 is actually more or less than that, with rounding - could be a close call...

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Bluewave is always trying to play the climate card...global temperatures in 2004 and 2005 were actually warmer than the last two winters, yet those years were able to produce potent arctic outbreaks. 2005 was the warmest year on record for GISS, which is probably his favored source for global temperatures.

I agree about wind direction but the main difference is clearly snow cover...850s during this outbreak got down to almost -23C which is similar to 2009 but I had lows around 8-9F instead of near 0F. Most of our big arctic shots had at least modest snow over. December 2010 was an exception and we also bottomed out in the low teens here with highs around 20F. It's just not possible to go sub zero in NYC without snow on the ground.

Making this a climate issue is absurd, in my opinion, when you l

 

You just need to face the fact that the temperatures have been steadily warming here and the severity of the Arctic outbreaks

during the winter has been moderating. NYC hasn't been able to drop below 6 degrees here since 2006 which isn't a usual

occurrence for us. Even during the mild 50's ,NYC was able to drop to 0-5 degrees regularly. You will notice less cold air

available in North America this month compared to earlier Arctic outbreaks. Canada has seen one of the

fastest rises in winter temperatures on the planet today. If Canada is having trouble getting really cold by 

there historical winter standards, how can you not expect it to impact our low temperature potential?

 

http://www.americanwx.com/bb/index.php/topic/38520-when-will-nyc-see-the-next-5-degrees-or-lower-annual-minimum-temperature/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Once to Friday , my thinking is we enter into another 5 to 7 day period close to what we just had . My guess right now is that a 7 day stretch of 5 below is on its way. The EURO looks colder , but too far too bite this far out.

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This weeks tallies so far

 

 

NYC:

 

1/21:      32 26  -3     

1/22:      27 13 -12  

1/23:      20 11 -16     

1/24:      22 12 -16

1/25:      24 13 -14

1/26:      27 15 -12 

 

LGA:

 

 

1/21:      32 28   -3     

1/22:      29 15  -11  

1/23:      20 12  -17     

1/24:      25 15  -13

1/25:      25 14  -13

1/26:      29 18  -9

 

JFK:

 

 

1/21:      33 26  -2     

1/22:      28 14 -11  

1/23:      21 12 -15     

1/24:      26 13 -12

1/25:      24 14 -14

1/26:      27 14 -12

 

EWR:

1/21:      33 25 -2    

1/22:      27 14 -10  

1/23:      21 11 -16    

1/24:      25 11 -14

1/25:      24 12 -14

1/26:      28 13 -11

 

 

TTN:  

 

1/21:      32 23  -3    

1/22:      25 10 -12  

1/23:      19 10 -16     

1/24:      25 10 -13

1/25:      22 10 -15

1/26:      28   9  -12

 

updated with 1/26

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updated with 1/26

 

 

Today should produce around a -7 for most, and tomorrow maybe a slight negative or neutral. But then we'll torch Wed before cooling Thursday, so final departures might not be far from what they are right now. In order for this winter, DJF period to finish at least normal temp wise in NYC, February would have to be along the lines of Feb 2007, with departures of -5.5 or greater.

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Today should produce around a -7 for most, and tomorrow maybe a slight negative or neutral. But then we'll torch Wed before cooling Thursday, so final departures might not be far from what they are right now. In order for this winter, DJF period to finish at least normal temp wise in NYC, February would have to be along the lines of Feb 2007, with departures of -5.5 or greater.

 

Yeah i think even greater than that after a +4 Dec and +3.5 Jan.    Tue - Thu should run above with wed/thu much above normal.  I like our chances the first half of Feb specifically between 2/2 and 2/6.

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