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Winter storm threat disc 1/25/13-1/26/13


Allsnow

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Although jm makes a good point in his previous post, the cold air mass we have certainly does matter as this may really help us at the very least get some sort of front end thump with a track where we would ordinarily get all rain with a crappier airmass.

I'm not all gung ho excited yet but this is an intriguing setup. A better NAO would be ideal, but usually the NAO's job is to lock in lower, suppressive heights to our north, and we do have that in this setup. It just has a bit more wiggle room to get ushered out than it would had there been a legit block.

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PD2 was first proggeed to be two separate events, we know how that turned out. I see a lot of similarities.

Pd2 was a two part event....we just didnt get anything from part one. Ask the DC/Balt thread about part 1, 3-5" for some areas

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This is a very favorable look. We have suppressive heights to our north, which is what an NAO's "job" would be anyway...so in some ways the pattern does act as if we have a good -NAO. This is why you can't just look at the indice numbers to get a good picture of the pattern. And of course a decent PNA spike with a nice shortwave to our west, with room to amplify but not too much room to cut.

post-73-135862106493.jpg

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kinda humorous to watch and seemingly strong and progressive ridge get squashed by the PV over NW canada as it heads east. What we end up with is cold and more cold and by 204 were still dealing with -16 850's. In case anybody is counting it looks like we don't get above freezing from hr 36 all the way through 204 and likely beyond. How true this ends up being who knows but would be quite impressive.

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The warmet 850 s are minus 10 awesome sign. 6 days out. So i can b as cautious as i was over the gfs. Howver gfs ensembles. 2 m temps hr156 minus 7 is its max. The models will catch the cold in front of it and take the southern route

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How often does that happen? We would need a strong -nao, no?

if you read the post above the purpose of a strong west based -NAO would be to keep confluence/suppressive heights north of us. For this time period as its modeled right now, even in the absence of a -NAO we have this suppressive heights due to the orientation of the trough and location of the PV

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So we have 3 models amped and way west and the Euro fast flowed and SE.....the euro is gonna lose again

so lets get this straight...we have 1 model which is awful at that timeframe showing amped and way west (CMC)...the ukmet (which I haven't seen) that I heard is warm and the GFS which is not what I'd call amped and way west especially with the whole evolution of the storm since we end up getting a moderate event anyway from the coastal. And now the euro which is probably just a little too far south of the metro area to give us the best snows. 

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if you read the post above the purpose of a strong west based -NAO would be to keep confluence/suppressive heights north of us. For this time period as its modeled right now, even in the absence of a -NAO we have this suppressive heights due to the orientation of the trough and location of the PV

 

But the danger with the neutral NAO is the PV slides just far enough east in a more amplified solution to

allow the SE Ridge to be strong enough for the models to trend to a warmer solution within 120 hrs. 

I wouldn't trust anything else but the euro ensemble mean past 120 hrs in a pattern like this. The 12z

OP is still a 144hr plus forecast.

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This is a very favorable look. We have suppressive heights to our north, which is what an NAO's "job" would be anyway...so in some ways the pattern does act as if we have a good -NAO. This is why you can't just look at the indice numbers to get a good picture of the pattern. And of course a decent PNA spike with a nice shortwave to our west, with room to amplify but not too much room to cut.

ImageUploadedYorkpa25, on 27 December 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

I don't know much, but come on guys this has a 90% chance of being a 2-4" storm that's it. It's pretty late in the game for anything drastic. I'd say if 0z runs don't have a big bump on qpf then this is not going to improve before its game time. Crazy things happen but not Saturday. Agree or disagree?

Sorry, you're wrong. Very small changes can still have large impacts wrt final outcome

ByTapatalk1358621055.184437.jpg

Hi Doug! From joe in seaside
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But the danger with the neutral NAO is the PV slides just far enough east in a more amplified solution to

allow the SE Ridge to be strong enough for the models to trend to a warmer solution within 120 hrs. 

I wouldn't trust anything else but the euro ensemble mean past 120 hrs in a pattern like this.

agreed the -nao locks this in vs it being potentially transient and easily impacted by a more amped solution

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But the danger with the neutral NAO is the PV slides just far enough east in a more amplified solution to

allow the SE Ridge to be strong enough for the models to trend to a warmer solution within 120 hrs. 

I wouldn't trust anything else but the euro ensemble mean past 120 hrs in a pattern like this. The 12z

OP is still a 144hr plus forecast.

 

There is definitely some weak blocking over greenland holding the 50/50 in place looking at the 500mb NHEM maps. It's not a strong -NAO though

 

edit: what i mean is it's not strong enough to guarantee a snowy solution right now

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agreed the -nao locks this in vs it being potentially transient and easily impacted by a more amped solution

 

Yeah, the OP Euro has a knack for getting the jump on the other models around 120 hrs

with tricky situations like this with the GFS a few days behind.

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