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January 17th-18th Winter Storm Discussion


BullCityWx

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Burger,  Hey man, appreciate all you do for this board with your pbp's.  If we are giving our snow up, I hope we can give it to you.  Looks like you will be very close, if not IN the best lift for this thing for a couple of hours.  Good luck.

 

Thanks man hopefully you can get a surprise. While I'm probably overly optimistic about my area I've said since we started tracking there would be big winners and big losers. It's hard to figure out which side of the line you're on until it's done. 

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Used the model extraction tool from wxcaster.com.

 

 


 

Don't rely on the models ability to get the PType correct.  Look at the actual sounding data and make your own determination.  A lot of times, intense dynamics with near 0C temps can result in really heavy snow, but it would show up as "liquid" as the ptype.  Ignore it.

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Looks like from what I can see things are shifting E of the central & southern mnts. & into the piedmont of NC. The n mnts & spots with higher elevation may do alright.

 

THE BIGGER CONCERN IS ONCE THE LOW ARRIVES...HOW FAST WILL PRECIPTRANSITION FROM RAIN TO SNOW...AND WHERE WILL THE HEAVIEST SNOWACCUM BE. THE 12Z NAM LINES UP WITH THE HI-RES WRF AND OTHER HI-RESMODELS IN BRINGING THE DEFORMATION ZONE ACRS THE CWFA IN THE 21Z TO03Z TIME FRAME. THERE IS GOOD POTENTIAL FOR AN E-W BAND OF HEAVYPRECIP AS THE LOW PASSES BY. MODELS SEEM TO HAVE THE BAND TRACKROUGHLY ALONG I-85. THIS MAY MEAN LESS SNOW ACCUM IN THE MTNS...BUTA HIGHER POTENTIAL FOR A QUICK SHOT OF ACCUMULATING SNOW ACRS THEPIEDMONT. AS THE COLD AIR WILL FILTER IN FROM THE NE IN THELLVLS...THINK THE CHC OF ACCUM SNOW IS STILL BEST ACRS THE NCPIEDMONT...WITH LOWER PROB AS YOU HEAD SW TOWARD NE GA. WITH THATSAID...THERE IS ACCUMULATING SNOW ACRS MS UNDER THE LOW...WHICH WILLTRACK RIGHT THRU THE UPSTATE THIS EVENING. ALSO...THE NAM SHOWSSTRONG FRONTOGENESIS BAND LINING UP ALONG I-85 WITH NEG EPV IN THESTRONGEST OMEGA AND SNOW GROWTH ZONE IN THE MID LVLS. SO WHAT ITHINK WILL HAPPEN IS THAT AN INTENSE NARROW BAND OF PRECIP WILLACCOMPANY THE UPR LOW AS IT CROSSES THIS EVENING...AND THIS PRECIPMAY FALL MAINLY AS SNOW. HOWEVER...THIS WILL BE FAIRLYLOCALIZED...SO MUCH OF THE UPSTATE AND NE GA WILL PROBABLY ONLY SEEFLURRIES/DUSTING AT TAIL-END OF THE PRECIP LATE THIS EVENING. SO IHAVE OPTED TO EXPAND THE WINTER WX ADV TO INCLUDE THE I-85 CORRIDORFROM SPARTANBURG TO FRANKLIN GA TO MENTION POTENTIAL FOR SOME SNOWACCUM AND BLACK ICE. THIS WILL BE IN EFFECT FROM 6 PM TO 6 AMTONIGHT.

Sounds about like what I posted earlier for NEGA (the poster). He'll love reading that.

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This concerns me greatly.  I think the changeover will occur quickly but if this thing picks up speed the duration (or lack thereof) will kill our totals.  I think we are definitely well positioned here in the heart of the Triad.  Amazed at the rainfall over the last few days though.  Are you tracking totals here locally?  My gauge is shot and I had to take it down over Christmas.

Not tracking totals.  After a 2 year snow drought, I'm in Vegas for a trade show and will miss the storm.  Hopefully we (y'all) get pummeled.  I think the show will be great for a few hours, but I think it will be short.  If you look at the GFS, by the time the 850 line shifts to our south/east, we've only got about .25" of qpf to go.  Just one model and not the best to look at at this time.  However, not a good thing to see.  I really think RAH is about right at this time. 

 

Haven't been able to keep up with the rainfall due to being out of town. 

 

TW

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Sounds about like what I posted earlier for NEGA (the poster). He'll love reading that.

Lol yes and no. I like reading it but also know from experience how things go in ga for snow, upper level lows, cold chasing precip etc. I am hopeful but it's hard she. It's pouring now but 52 out side. Even a quick hit of a couple hours snow would beat last year.

Ps sorry about ur back. I have back issues at times but nothing like what you are going through

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It changes y'all over as we'll. actually back into eastern TN as well

Thanks for mentioning east TN. I don't think there is any doubt we change over here in east TN, its just a matter of seeing if we can eek out an hour or two under heavier snow. Most modeling is really drying east TN out very quickly once the colder air needed for snow has worked its way into the system. 

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http://www.daculaweather.com/4_afd_mrx.php

 

URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGE
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE MORRISTOWN TN
1211 PM EST THU JAN 17 2013
 

..WINTER STORM WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 10 PM EST THIS
EVENING...

 

...WINTRY CONDITIONS ARE EXPECTED ACROSS EAST TENNESSEE...
SOUTHWEST VIRGINIA AND SOUTHWEST NORTH CAROLINA TODAY THROUGH
THIS EVENING...

.A STRONG WEATHER SYSTEM WILL MOVE ACROSS THE TENNESSEE VALLEY AND
SOUTHERN APPALACHIANS THIS AFTERNOON INTO EARLY TONIGHT GENERATING
ANOTHER ROUND OF PRECIPITATION ACROSS THE AREA. BRISK NORTHERLY
WINDS WILL PULL COLDER AIR INTO THE SOUTHERN APPALACHIANS. RAIN
WILL TRANSITION TO SNOW THIS AFTERNOON WITH SIGNIFICANT SNOW
ACCUMULATIONS POSSIBLE IN THE HIGHER ELEVATIONS...WITH LESSER
AMOUNTS OF SNOW IN THE LOWER ELEVATIONS. THE SYSTEM WILL EXIT THE
AREA THIS EVENING.

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Thanks for mentioning east TN. I don't think there is any doubt we change over here in east TN, its just a matter of seeing if we can eek out an hour or two under heavier snow. Most modeling is really drying east TN out very quickly once the colder air needed for snow has worked its way into the system. 

 

I have to disagree based on the latest RAP:

 

3517g40.jpg

 

mma0sz.jpg

 

Every RAP run over the past 3 hours has increased the intensity of this thing across east TN.  I have guarded optimism at this point.

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At least for the southern foothills it has gone up a tick. Started by under 1", then to 1.5" then to 1.4" now it is 1.7"

I assume this jumping will continue to happen as we progress through the afternoon

GSP really cutting back on snow amounts for the foothills and parts of the mountains...

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At least for the southern foothills it has gone up a tick. Started by under 1", then to 1.5" then to 1.4" now it is 1.7"

I assume this jumping will continue to happen as we progress through the afternoon

It started as 2.1 then went up to 3.1 now down to 1.8 here, and lower for Asheville and the northern mountains as well, bottom line is it will be almost impossible to pinpoint where the heaviest accumulations will be due to the banding nature of the comma head and deformation band

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Been toggling back and forth between last runs of the RAP and there is a clear north trend. It's subtle between 1 hour runs, but if you look back 6-9 hours, it's enough to matter.

I would be (and am) very nervous if I were in extreme northern S.C. and extreme southern N.C. about the bulk of the precip falling to the north. The state line has been the demarcation, but it's going to be close. A few more 25-mile north jogs and it could have significant consequences for Tryon/Forest City/Shelby/Gaffney/Gastonia/CLT. If you look hours 9-11 of the 16z RAP, you start to see some "air" between the .1 per hour QPF line and the NC/SC state line.

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I have to disagree based on the latest RAP:

 

3517g40.jpg

 

mma0sz.jpg

 

Every RAP run over the past 3 hours has increased the intensity of this thing across east TN.  I have guarded optimism at this point.

The dry slot moving through also may help lower dew points allowing for a quicker cool down once the precip from the ULL moves on in. At least that's what I would hope.

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Been toggling back and forth between last runs of the RAP and there is a clear north trend. It's subtle between 1 hour runs, but if you look back 6-9 hours, it's enough to matter.

I would be (and am) very nervous if I were in extreme northern S.C. and extreme southern N.C. about the bulk of the precip falling to the north. The state line has been the demarcation, but it's going to be close. A few more 25-mile north jogs and it could have significant consequences for Tryon/Forest City/Shelby/Gaffney/Gastonia/CLT. If you look hours 9-11 of the 16z RAP, you start to see some "air" between the .1 per hour QPF line and the NC/SC state line.

 

Agreed, it's maybe moved 25 miles north, huge differences for the people on the northern/southern fringes.

 

Take a look at the 13z RAP run, 6 hour precip totals ending 7z Friday.

 

RAP_255_2013011713_F18_PCPIN_6_HR.png

 

 

16z run....

 

RAP_255_2013011716_F15_PCPIN_6_HR.png

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Roads getting messy just north of Birmingham.

BULLETIN - EAS ACTIVATION REQUESTED

CIVIL EMERGENCY MESSAGE

WALKER COUNTY EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY ALABAMA

RELAYED BY NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE BIRMINGHAM AL

1108 AM CST THU JAN 17 2013

THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE IS TRANSMITTED AT THE REQUEST OF THE WALKER

COUNTY EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY ALABAMA:

DUE TO HEAVY SNOWFALL OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF HOURS...ROAD

CONDITIONS HAVE DETERIORATED CONSIDERABLY CAUSING MULTIPLE TRAFFIC

ACCIDENTS. PLEASE...UNLESS YOU ARE DEALING WITH AN EMERGENCY

SITUATION...STAY OFF COUNTY ROADWAYS UNTIL LATER THIS EVENING.

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Where did the RAP 16Z start the ull at 01 compared to current surface data?

You are correct and the battle line might jog N a tick..

Been toggling back and forth between last runs of the RAP and there is a clear north trend. It's subtle between 1 hour runs, but if you look back 6-9 hours, it's enough to matter.

I would be (and am) very nervous if I were in extreme northern S.C. and extreme southern N.C. about the bulk of the precip falling to the north. The state line has been the demarcation, but it's going to be close. A few more 25-mile north jogs and it could have significant consequences for Tryon/Forest City/Shelby/Gaffney/Gastonia/CLT. If you look hours 9-11 of the 16z RAP, you start to see some "air" between the .1 per hour QPF line and the NC/SC state line.

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I have to disagree based on the latest RAP:

 

Every RAP run over the past 3 hours has increased the intensity of this thing across east TN.  I have guarded optimism at this point.

 

After closer inspection..............of the RAP..............I noticed that from 3ish till about 8 or 8:30 the RAP has KTRI in 30-35 dbz's the entire time. Anyone know how much of this would be snow?  I wonder why this is so different than the hi-res NAM and other higher resolution models?

How valuable or reliable is the RAP and how much credence should we in east TN pay to it?  Looking for that ray of hope here!  Thanks in advance for any imput.

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Update from Asheville news 13 met Jason Boyer Latest model runs are more consistently showing LESS snow for the FBRV (French Broad River Valley) & MORE snow farther north and east. This means areas like Rutherford, McDowell, Burke & Caldwell County could end up with some of the biggest totals! AVL, WVL & HVL will still get snow, but the lower end is looking more likely. This will put the range between 1" & 3" for most valleys. It's still an evolving storm, so stay tuned

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