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January 17th-18th Winter Storm Discussion


BullCityWx

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Thanks Allan, a bit conservative versus the clowns which is always a good move. I am in B, foothills but on the TN side, does the B side in TN include just the mountains or would you include the lower elevations of the boarding counties as well?

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Great overnight discussion folks.  Also, great contributions from Alan and Matthew East this morning on their websites.  Matthew shows exactly what the models depicted overnight and is well worth the 5 minutes to watch his video.  Looks like the slightly stronger for a longer period of time trend continued overnight.  Overall, I believe the temperatures trended slightly cooler as well.  Man, 2 degrees will make a huge difference!  

 

Looks like it's time to start looking at some of the shorter range modeling and simulated radar that can give us some hints to the track of that all important deformation band.  Does anyone have links to some of these models, what times they run, and which ones might be more accurate?

 

I don't know how much snow I might end up with in MBY.  However, I have learned over the years not to get too excited by the snow maps.  A good rule of thumb for me is to take the average snow map, cut it in half, and subtract all of the counties on the periphery of the map.  If your county is the last one on the edge of the accumulating snow, changes are you will miss out.  I have been burned by that many times in the past.  My county was modeled to get a couple of inches and we got nothing while the county to the north (Guilford) got the couple of inches. 

 

Anyway, good day to all!

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Thanks Allan, a bit conservative versus the clowns which is always a good move. I am in B, foothills but on the TN side, does the B side in TN include just the mountains or would you include the lower elevations of the boarding counties as well?

 

I would include the lower elevations, but obviously the mountains have the better chance for the significant amounts.

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Good morning folks.

 

As promised my morning discussion with first forecast map. Will be following all day.

 

http://www.examiner.com/article/snow-possible-thursday-night

Nice job Allan!

For some reason I'm just not feeling this one. It might be because of the model shift yesterday to a more snowy solution but I'm still concerned w/ BL issues and this being a mostly cold rain event for our area. Or it could just be my negative ways...LOL! Anyway, I enjoyed the write up.

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+1 on this post and +2 for the great red taggers putting in comments to the disco!!

 

The rule with this system might be 12 hours out before anyone (outside the painted snow madness areas) can get hopes up. I assume, once it comes into the area, I will be eye balling the 925 maps and hoping for the rain to come down in bucket to cool the lowers down.

 

 

 

Great overnight discussion folks.  Also, great contributions from Alan and Matthew East this morning on their websites.  Matthew shows exactly what the models depicted overnight and is well worth the 5 minutes to watch his video.  Looks like the slightly stronger for a longer period of time trend continued overnight.  Overall, I believe the temperatures trended slightly cooler as well.  Man, 2 degrees will make a huge difference!  

 

Looks like it's time to start looking at some of the shorter range modeling and simulated radar that can give us some hints to the track of that all important deformation band.  Does anyone have links to some of these models, what times they run, and which ones might be more accurate?

 

I don't know how much snow I might end up with in MBY.  However, I have learned over the years not to get too excited by the snow maps.  A good rule of thumb for me is to take the average snow map, cut it in half, and subtract all of the counties on the periphery of the map.  If your county is the last one on the edge of the accumulating snow, changes are you will miss out.  I have been burned by that many times in the past.  My county was modeled to get a couple of inches and we got nothing while the county to the north (Guilford) got the couple of inches. 

 

Anyway, good day to all!

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Triad TV mets serving up a FAIL anywhere outside of the mountains. WXII just showed a low of 42 tomorrow night. There is either way too much optimism on this board (yes IMO) or a disconnect between last nights model runs and what the mets feel comfortable forecasting. We are in range for the short range models now so I am a little suprised at a potential 8-10 degree difference in the forecasts I am seeing.

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Triad TV mets serving up a FAIL anywhere outside of the mountains. WXII just showed a low of 42 tomorrow night. There is either way too much optimism on this board (yes IMO) or a disconnect between last nights model runs and what the mets feel comfortable forecasting. We are in range for the short range models now so I am a little suprised at a potential 8-10 degree difference in the forecasts I am seeing.

 

I was wondering if that was a typo on their forecast because Emily Byrd has a low of 28 for tomorrow night, while Austin had a low of 40. Talk about a major difference.

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Triad TV mets serving up a FAIL anywhere outside of the mountains. WXII just showed a low of 42 tomorrow night. There is either way too much optimism on this board (yes IMO) or a disconnect between last nights model runs and what the mets feel comfortable forecasting. We are in range for the short range models now so I am a little suprised at a potential 8-10 degree difference in the forecasts I am seeing.

 

Heh, I busted by 8 degrees on my forecast high yesterday that was issued the night before.

 

I think this is a classic case of them not wanting to get burned.  Until last night, forecasting anything other than a slushy dusting for the Triad would not have been wise.  Now, the models are suggesting more, but it is a rather recent evolution.  Additionally, this storm is not the classic system that brings snow to the Triad area.  Finally, especially for TV mets, it's a lot easier to say rain and switch to snow later than it is to call for snow and then people get rain.

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The map of his thoughts are below the video at the page Matt posted above!

 

 

I Don't see a map?

 

Thanks East!!

 

BTW, GSP thoughts for the southern foothills make Thursday look raw!

 

Rain, mainly after 8am. Temperature falling to around 39 by 5pm. North wind 7 to 14 mph. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New precipitation amounts between 1 and 2 inches possible.

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unless there is a sudden southern shift in the upper low track, looks like ne ga is to get screwed completely. Only hope is that with the upper low./coldest temps going right over head that lapse rates/instability will produce some sleet/graupel or whatever as it moves over. Problem here (besides moisture) is 925 to surface temps being very warm here...last to cool in fact due to the mountains blocking low level caa. So unless there is some sort of convection that might produce something here reaching the ground, no dice. Looks good to me for nc, far nw ga, mountains, and NE alabama.

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Triad TV mets serving up a FAIL anywhere outside of the mountains. WXII just showed a low of 42 tomorrow night. There is either way too much optimism on this board (yes IMO) or a disconnect between last nights model runs and what the mets feel comfortable forecasting. We are in range for the short range models now so I am a little suprised at a potential 8-10 degree difference in the forecasts I am seeing.

 

 

That's pretty typical. This storm has to potential to be great for many areas but also an epic fail for places outside of the mountains. It's easier for them to play catch up than forecast accumulating snow, get the public in a tizzy, then have to pull back the maps. 

 

Based on all of the model data, I'm pretty confident it is going to snow in the Triad and points N and W. The real question at this point is "how much??".

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OK, this might be a dumb question.  How warm can the ground be right now?  I know that we had really warm temps over the weekend and haven't been below freezing in a while.  However, we have had NO sunshine in 4 days and the past 24 hours the temperature has been around 40 with a cold rain/drizzle the entire time.  I didn't really want to start the soil temperature debate.  I know that if it snows at an inch/hour or more rates it WILL accumulate. I was just curious because I have heard this from the TV mets already.  Mr. East also mentions this in his discussion so I guess it does have some merit and not just an excuse for the TV folks to use to wiggle out of a forecast.

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OK, this might be a dumb question.  How warm can the ground be right now?  I know that we had really warm temps over the weekend and haven't been below freezing in a while.  However, we have had NO sunshine in 4 days and the past 24 hours the temperature has been around 40 with a cold rain/drizzle the entire time.  I didn't really want to start the soil temperature debate.  I know that if it snows at an inch/hour or more rates it WILL accumulate. I was just curious because I have heard this from the TV mets already.  Mr. East also mentions this in his discussion so I guess it does have some merit and not just an excuse for the TV folks to use to wiggle out of a forecast.

 

Soil temps are warm...mid to lower 50's. It will be an issue, but like you said...heavy rates can overcome. You can use this link to pull up soil temps in Durham, for example.

 

http://nc-climate.ncsu.edu/cronos?station=DURH&temporal=hourly

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OK, this might be a dumb question.  How warm can the ground be right now?  I know that we had really warm temps over the weekend and haven't been below freezing in a while.  However, we have had NO sunshine in 4 days and the past 24 hours the temperature has been around 40 with a cold rain/drizzle the entire time.  I didn't really want to start the soil temperature debate.  I know that if it snows at an inch/hour or more rates it WILL accumulate. I was just curious because I have heard this from the TV mets already.  Mr. East also mentions this in his discussion so I guess it does have some merit and not just an excuse for the TV folks to use to wiggle out of a forecast.

 

Try this out.  Here's the link:  http://www.nc-climate.ncsu.edu/

 

um35M.png

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need to change the title to "Helen" ;)

 

149511_10151414457345921_1917914357_n.jp

This whole naming of winter storm is just ridiculous! Next it will be when air masses change.  Alert, Alert,Alert! Fresh air from GLADE will be pouring into the US, lets go to our fresh air expert Dr. Wizard, as he tracking the fresh air and how it going to effect Atlanta and New York.

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