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January 17th-18th Winter Storm Discussion


BullCityWx

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It's colder than 12z but not quite as good as NAM/GFS, probably a sloppy inch for RDU, VA/NC border probably a few inches.

Yeah I guess that's why it's called a trend...haha. Slowly but surely. It is Colder, wetter, and stronger with the surface low. I'll take it. Bedtime for me though!

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It's colder than 12z but not quite as good as NAM/GFS, probably a sloppy inch for RDU, VA/NC border probably a few inches.

 

From what I have understood, the ECMWF is not as good as the American models (NAM,GFS)  within 2 or 3 days for the USA.  If anyone can link proof up, that'd be great.  It's actually drizzling here and it wasn't supposed to at all this early currently btw.

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new Euro has our system a closed contour or so stronger with the vort energy at 48 hours and also much quicker compared to 72 hours on last night's 0z run

 

also, slightly colder at 850 compared to last night's run at 72 hours

 

looks very similar to the 0z GFS temp profile at that layer and wouldnt be cold enough outside of NC high terrain and northern NC/VA (at least at that time)... haven't looked to see if the cold will press into central NC, but it probably will to some degree since the vort seems to be holding together longer than previous Euro depictions

post-8747-0-54891400-1358316440_thumb.gi

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Lots of QPF for WNC but only "some" snow for mountains? Are you saying euro is saying mostly rain for mountains then??

Yep that's what I mean...verbatim there is not a ton of snow in the mountains, from what I'm seeing...it's very close though.

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new Euro has our system a closed contour or so stronger with the vort energy at 48 hours and also much quicker compared to 72 hours on last night's 0z run

 

also, slightly colder at 850 compared to last night's run at 72 hours

 

looks very similar to the 0z GFS temp profile at that layer and wouldnt be cold enough outside of NC high terrain and northern NC/VA (at least at that time)... haven't looked to see if the cold will press into central NC, but it probably will to some degree since the vort seems to be holding together longer than previous Euro depictions

We need to get Brick out there and have him start huffing and puffing and blowing as hard as he can towards the west to slow this thing down! RDU has 0.73" of QPF that falls after 0z Friday, at 0z 850's are 0.5 and crash to -3 by 6z with 542 thicknesses. A couple degrees colder and its a different ball game, unfortunately I feel like we are squeezing every ounce of cold as it is now. Oh yeah surface temps drop from 5.2 to 1.6C during that time but do drop below freezing by 12z on Friday.

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From what I have understood, the ECMWF is not as good as the American models (NAM,GFS)  within 2 or 3 days for the USA.  If anyone can link proof up, that'd be great.  It's actually drizzling here and it wasn't supposed to at all this early currently btw.

 

I don't know, Allan H pretty much dispelled that myth last year.  The Euro consistently has the best verification scores at any time range.  Sure, it has it's own biases, but if it didn't have the initial conditions right and didn't perform well at the short range, it couldn't perform well in the mid range and so on down the line.

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GSP has jumped on board with a WSW for almost all of the Mnt counties. Down below is the overnight afd.

 

Winter Storm Watch
URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGENATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE GREENVILLE-SPARTANBURG SC406 AM EST WED JAN 16 2013...SIGNIFICANT WINTER STORM POSSIBLE ACROSS THE NORTH CAROLINAMOUNTAINS THURSDAY....LOW PRESSURE WILL DEVELOP ACROSS CENTRAL GEORGIA LATE TONIGHT...SPREADING ANOTHER ROUND OF PRECIPITATION INTO THE WESTERNCAROLINAS. THIS LOW WILL STRENGTHEN AS IT MOVES ACROSS CENTRALSOUTH CAROLINA ON THURSDAY. AS THIS OCCURS...COLDER AIR WILL BEGINFILTERING INTO THE FAR WESTERN MOUNTAINS OF NORTH CAROLINA. THISIS EXPECTED TO RESULT IN A QUICK TRANSITION TO SNOW ACROSSPORTIONS OF THE MOUNTAINS...ESPECIALLY ACROSS THE TENNESSEEBORDER COUNTIES. HEAVY ACCUMULATIONS OF SNOW WILL BE POSSIBLE...ESPECIALLY IN THE NORTHERN AND CENTRAL MOUNTAINS...INCLUDING THEPIGEON RIVER VALLEY AND THE LOWER FRENCH BROAD VALLEY...AS WELLAS IN THE HIGHER ELEVATIONS OF THE SOUTHWEST MOUNTAINS.NCZ033-048>053-162100-/O.NEW.KGSP.WS.A.0001.130117T1200Z-130118T0500Z/AVERY-MADISON-YANCEY-MITCHELL-SWAIN-HAYWOOD-BUNCOMBE-INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...NEWLAND...SPRUCE PINE...BRYSON CITY...WAYNESVILLE...ASHEVILLE406 AM EST WED JAN 16 2013...WINTER STORM WATCH IN EFFECT FROM THURSDAY MORNING THROUGHTHURSDAY EVENING...THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN GREENVILLE-SPARTANBURG HAS ISSUEDA WINTER STORM WATCH...WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM THURSDAY MORNINGTHROUGH THURSDAY EVENING.* LOCATIONS...THE CENTRAL AND NORTHERN MOUNTAINS OF NORTH  CAROLINA.* HAZARDS...HEAVY SNOW.* TIMING...A TRANSITION FROM RAIN TO SNOW IS EXPECTED BY THURSDAY  AFTERNOON.* ACCUMULATIONS...SNOW ACCUMULATION OF 3 TO 6 INCHES. LOCALLY  HIGHER AMOUNTS POSSIBLE...ESPECIALLY IN THE HIGH ELEVATIONS  ALONG THE TENNESSEE BORDER.* IMPACTS...SNOWFALL CREATING HAZARDOUS DRIVING CONDITIONS. HEAVY  WET SNOW MAY PULL DOWN POWER LINES IN SOME AREAS.* TEMPERATURES...FALLING TO THE LOWER AND MID 30S BY AFTERNOON.* WINDS...NORTH 10 TO 20 MPH WITH GUSTS UP TO 35 MPH.

 

.SHORT TERM /THURSDAY THROUGH FRIDAY/...
AS OF 310 AM WEDNESDAY...QUITE AN INTERESTING FORECAST DURING THE
SHORT TERM...AS THE MODELS ARE COMING INTO BETTER AGREEMENT WITH
REGARD TO THE EVOLUTION OF THE UPPER LOW AND ATTENDANT SURFACE
DEVELOPMENT. AS MUCH AS I DOUBTED THE NAM 24 HOURS AGO...THE GFS HAS
COME AROUND TO ITS SOLUTION OF MAINTAINING A RATHER INTENSE VORT MAX
ACROSS THE SOUTHEAST...WITH THE CLOSED CIRCULATION NOT OPENING UP
UNTIL IT LEAVES THE SOUTHEAST COAST.
RESULTANT COMPACT AREA OF DPVA
RESULTS IN SURFACE DEVELOPMENT WELL INTO THE INTERIOR OF GEORGIA AND
SC. AS SUCH...IT APPEARS THAT THE STRONGEST DEEP LAYER FORCING (AND
MAKE NO MISTAKE...IT WILL BE VERY STRONG) WILL PASS OVER THE WESTERN
CAROLINAS AND NORTHEAST GEORGIA BY THURSDAY MORNING...SPREADING
MODERATE TO HEAVY RAIN INTO THE REGION. IN FACT...IT APPEARS THAT
MUCH OF THE WESTERN HALF OF THE CWA WILL SEE 1-1.5 INCHES BETWEEN
12Z AND 18Z.


AT FIRST...THERE WILL BE TOO MUCH WARM AIR IN PLACE TO CREATE ANY
P-TYPE CONCERNS. HOWEVER...AS THE DEEPENING SURFACE LOW TRACKS
ACROSS CENTRAL SC...PATTERNS OF COLD AND WARM ADVECTION WILL SET UP
SUCH THAT COLDER AIR WILL BEGIN FILTERING INTO THE WESTERN MTNS OF
NORTH CAROLINA BY EARLY AFTERNOON. THIS PATTERN WILL ALSO ESTABLISH
A DEEP AND RATHER INTENSE FRONTOGENETICAL CIRCULATION...WITH THE
RISING BRANCH OF THIS CIRCULATION EXPECTED TO DEVELOP OVER THE
SOUTHERN APPALACHIANS. THE COMBINATION OF COLD ADVECTION AND INTENSE
PRECIP RATES SHOULD ESTABLISH A NEAR-FREEZING ISOTHERMAL LAYER OVER
THE MTNS...ESPECIALLY NEAR THE TENN BORDER. FORECAST SOUNDINGS IN
THE NAM AND GFS ARE ESSENTIALLY ALL-SNOW BY 18Z ACROSS THE HIGHER
ELEVATIONS OF THE SW MTNS...AND ALL OF THE MTNS (INCLUDING THE
VALLEYS) FROM ROUGHLY I-40 NORTH ACROSS THE TENN BORDER COUNTIES. AT
THAT POINT...THERE WILL BE SEVERAL MORE HOURS OF STRONG FORCING AS
THE UPPER LOW PASSES ACROSS NORTH GEORGIA AND THE NORTHERN HALF OF
SC DURING THE AFTERNOON. IN OTHER WORDS...CONFIDENCE IS INCREASING
THAT A SIGNIFICANT SNOW EVENT WILL OCCUR ACROSS PORTIONS OF THE NC
MTNS.
A WINTER STORM WATCH WILL BE ISSUED FOR ALL NC MTN ZONES WITH
THE EXCEPTION OF SRN JACKSON...TRANSYLVANIA...AND HENDERSON. WE WILL
ALSO JUST ISSUE A WATCH FOR THE HIGH ELEVATIONS OF MACON AND GRAHAM.
AS A STARTING POINT...FORECAST ACCUMS WILL BE IN THE 3-6 INCH
RANGE...BUT THESE WILL LIKELY NEED SOME REFINING AS TIME GOES ON.


THE PRECIPITATION WILL END QUICKLY THURSDAY EVENING...WITH RAPIDLY
CLEARING SKIES. TOTAL RAINFALL FOR THURSDAY IS EXPECTED TO RANGE
FROM 1.5 TO 2.5 INCHES...WITH LOCALLY HIGHER AMOUNTS. WINDS WILL
BECOME QUITE GUSTY IN THE COLD ADVECTION...ESPECIALLY OVER THE MTNS
FROM LATE AFTERNOON INTO THE EVENING HOURS...ENOUGH THAT A WIND
ADVISORY MAY BECOME NECESSARY. OTHERWISE...FALLING TEMPS THROUGHOUT
THE DAY THURSDAY WILL GIVE WAY TO MUCH COOLER MINS (I.E. NEAR CLIMO)
IN THE COLD ADVECTION AND CLEARING SKIES THURSDAY NIGHT.
 

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Man, was hoping it would trend a little better for the Atlanta area....is it even possible to squeeze an inch out of this system?

Not likely. I'm up in dahlonega and I'm not hopeful for mby either. This looks like a wnc, east tn, and north central

Nc special. Perhaps someone in nw ga can eek out a lucky inch.

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Not likely. I'm up in dahlonega and I'm not hopeful for mby either. This looks like a wnc, east tn, and north central

Nc special. Perhaps someone in nw ga can eek out a lucky inch.

 

Yeah, I don't really see much as far as snow...maybe the Northwestern part of the metro-Marietta, Kennesaw, etc, they can get .5-1 inch. Don't really see much anywhere else in Atlanta.  Hopefully, we can get a few token flakes...hopefully, with the cold air coming over the next few weeks, we can get our lucky system going :). This system here looks to wallop a few people though.

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Still says no to snow ... but most of the time i think they (RAH) forgets that GSO/INT are in their forecast area ... as a lot of the time they wait till the wx happens, then they forecast it lol ... anyway here is hoping all of WNC/ Northern NC/ NW NC/ Triad metro, etc lol sees some flakes ...

 

and ty to Burger/ Jon/ str8homey/ queencity/ delta , etc for all you guys do ...

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It is nice to see the latest runs of the NAM, GFS, and ECMWF now all showing a simiilar scenario. By the way for those of you who cant see it, the ECMWF snow accumulation map is pretty similar to the NAM/GFS.

 

This is not a setup for your classic winter storm in these parts with antecedent cold air in place, a great storm track, cold high pressure over the Northeast. But it does look like a setup where a closed low will move across the Southeast and actually take on a negative tilt during the day tomorrow which should induce rapid cyclogenesis off the Southeast coast.  As this happens a vigorus deformation band will set up which will put many areas of TN/NC/Va in an area of strong lift with cold air winning the battle.

 

This is not a recipe for a widespread major winter storm, but the odds are looking good that many in at least TN/NC/VA will see a period of snow.

 

I will make a more in-depth post later this morning.

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It is nice to see the latest runs of the NAM, GFS, and ECMWF now all showing a simiilar scenario. By the way for those of you who cant see it, the ECMWF snow accumulation map is pretty similar to the NAM/GFS.

 

This is not a setup for your classic winter storm in these parts with antecedent cold air in place, a great storm track, cold high pressure over the Northeast. But it does look like a setup where a closed low will move across the Southeast and actually take on a negative tilt during the day tomorrow which should induce rapid cyclogenesis off the Southeast coast.  As this happens a vigorus deformation band will set up which will put many areas of TN/NC/Va in an area of strong lift with cold air winning the battle.

 

This is not a recipe for a widespread major winter storm, but the odds are looking good that many in at least TN/NC/VA will see a period of snow.

 

I will make a more in-depth post later this morning.

Thanks Allan! 

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Well nothing here in nw sc but that was expected, at least I picked the perfect weekend to have a cabin in the pigeon valley for 4 days!! We will be taking sleds and plenty of pics!!

Happy for you guys that are really owed some snow in the mountains! For here we are getting tons of rain, ?I glanced this morning and I swear it said over 10" this month so far...but that was at 3:30am..lol

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