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January Pattern and Storm Discussion II


Cold Rain

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Hope this is not a crazy question, I am kinda new and trying to keep up. But, what is a CAD area?

 

 

Hope this is not a crazy question, I am kinda new and trying to keep up. But, what is a CAD area?

CAD refers to Cold Air Damming.  This is what happens when cold air filters down from further north (because of a high pressure in the northeast which feeds air down the apps)  Because of the mountains, it gets trapped and cannot be easily scoured out of the area.  In extreme cases, the cold air can filter all the way to Georgia and eastern Alabama.

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6z GFS has a nice light freezing rain/sleet event across much of north GA for at least the first half of Friday.  Here is the sounding for MBY at 1pm Friday which shows temps in the 20's. 

 

Text data off the 6z gives a solid .25" for KGVL dropping most of the precip as ZR.

Definitely something to watch here.

 

This new quote coding is weird and annoying lol.

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LOL...  This seems to be a tricky forecast for NWS offices!?

 

Within 5 miles of our house (Virgilina, VA) there are three different NWS forecasts -- Blacksburg, Wakefield and Raleigh.  Based on these we have either a 70% chance of wintry (freezing rain, sleet and snow) precipitation on Friday; a 50% chance of rain and sleet; or, a 20% chance of rain and snow on Thursday night followed by a 50% chance of rain and snow on Friday.

 

The "event" appears to be evolving?

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I thought they looked real close for us (Central NC). 2M temps are below freezing at 78 (wityh precip falling) and then just above at 84. I think this was another good trend. Also going on what RAH sayed last night low level cold air will have a harder time being pushed out from what current models indicate. **I personally think we have a good shot at wintery precip, but the big question is going to be type and amounts. 

 

The Euro is on our side and it seems the NAM is trending better. I don't think we need much if it's going to be a mix of snow and ice for things to get interesting around here. It might not be good for building a snowman, but it would still cause major problems on the roads with the temps being so cold this week.

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Text data off the 6z gives a solid .25" for KGVL dropping most of the precip as ZR.

Verbatim off the 6z GFS I would expect it to start off as sleet then change to snow as the column wet bulbs and then back to sleet/freezing rain up here in our neck of the woods.

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CAD refers to Cold Air Damming.  This is what happens when cold air filters down from further north (because of a high pressure in the northeast which feeds air down the apps)  Because of the mountains, it gets trapped and cannot be easily scoured out of the area.  In extreme cases, the cold air can filter all the way to Georgia and eastern Alabama.

I give you an A on your explanation. It helps us rookies when certain acronyms are defined.

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Consider me confused.  The models seems to be indicating a Low going up the apps or towards Ohio. How is CLT supposed to get frozen precipitation out of this? I understand the principal of CAD and how it's going to be relatively cold, but I don't see a mechanism to get both moisture AND cold in here at the same time when our Low is well to the west.  Experience tells me this system is a very cold rain, or dry.  At best maybe something token at the onset for I-40 north.  Or is the synoptic set up that the Low is going to trend south?  No comprendea :blink:

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I have noticed when following clippers there is usually a correction north from 4-5 days in.  This would be detrimental to snow/ice chances on a major scale, but wouldn't necessarily rule it out.  Trends in the coming 24 hours will be crucial.

 

There will be some tap (probably light tap) from the Gulf of Mexico. If this was a straight up clipper I wouldn't even be following it so closely right now. 

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I thought they looked real close for us (Central NC). 2M temps are below freezing at 78 (wityh precip falling) and then just above at 84. I think this was another good trend. Also going on what RAH sayed last night low level cold air will have a harder time being pushed out from what current models indicate. **I personally think we have a good shot at wintery precip, but the big question is going to be type and amounts.

Yeah, I like the trends, and at this point, that's the most important thing to take into account. Many areas though, are right on the edge, so even small trends north can put many of us out of the game for something other than a little wintry mix at the onset. Of course a little bit farther south than what the Euro shows will put many in the path of a significant winter storm.

The air mass in place is going to be highly supportive of a winter event. This we know. But how that northern stream energy sees the arctic air mass and where it might reform the low along the boundary and how it feels that kicker wave coming in behind it are still up in the air.

I think there's only so far south this can go, and a low tracking overhead is not a high confidence winter storm in my book...especially with energy over the Lakes interfering with cold air transport. But the trends are encouraging, so maybe our luck will turn with this one. The RAH disco was a good one and is encouraging also.

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CAD refers to Cold Air Damming. This is what happens when cold air filters down from further north (because of a high pressure in the northeast which feeds air down the apps) Because of the mountains, it gets trapped and cannot be easily scoured out of the area. In extreme cases, the cold air can filter all the way to Georgia and eastern Alabama.

But is this potential event late in the week one of those "extreme" cases where the cold air reached all the way to Atlanta and East Alabama ? I just have lots of doubts about any ice potential all the way to the Alabama border. I can see us getting screwed out of wintry weather for the 2nd time in a week.

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Yes, please. Before the kid gets out of class and dooms us.

 

For my area, I would have made it yesterday. Still too uncertain for me for places like Raleigh and Charlotte. I believe this storm will be another who got something and who got nothing. Good luck on whoever makes it...I like my position here in the northern foothills better than the last storm, which still produced.

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Consider me confused.  The models seems to be indicating a Low going up the apps or towards Ohio. How is CLT supposed to get frozen precipitation out of this? I understand the principal of CAD and how it's going to be relatively cold, but I don't see a mechanism to get both moisture AND cold in here at the same time when our Low is well to the west.  Experience tells me this system is a very cold rain, or dry.  At best maybe something token at the onset for I-40 north.  Or is the synoptic set up that the Low is going to trend south?  No comprendea :blink:

 

I'd say you are spot on SnowNiner.  Unless the 500mb vort max trends way south, the moisture will be quite limited.  You can see this by how the southeast is in the thin portion of the high 700mb Relative Humidity (i.e. south of the comma head that develops).  The cold air ahead of the system is impressive though.  Greensboro has a temperature of 27 with a dewpoint of 1 at 10AM on Friday on the GFS.  CLT can see significant ice with a low passing well to the NW, but you need a high that is anchored in over the NE, and more precip in the southern stream.  

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Consider me confused.  The models seems to be indicating a Low going up the apps or towards Ohio. How is CLT supposed to get frozen precipitation out of this? I understand the principal of CAD and how it's going to be relatively cold, but I don't see a mechanism to get both moisture AND cold in here at the same time when our Low is well to the west.  Experience tells me this system is a very cold rain, or dry.  At best maybe something token at the onset for I-40 north.  Or is the synoptic set up that the Low is going to trend south?  No comprendea :blink:

 

More of a hybrid with some light Gulf tap. Read the AFD's from the NWS, not the dry clipper statements from the board here.

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I haven't been on very much or following the models but at first glance, at least a period of freezing precip can be expected in north ga. I know the initial wedge appearance, wetbulbs, and depth of the wedge look pretty good per gfs sounding. Will look closer at this after the new runs come in.

 

Can't believe we finally my favorite to talk about though. Very nice surprise..just hope there is enough precip to actually matter

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According to the 06Z GFS, Hickory would look to start out as snow and then transition to a pretty decent amount of ZR/IP on Friday.  That surface layer is quite cold:

 

Date: 3 day AVN valid 6Z FRI 25 JAN 13Station: KHKYLatitude:   35.73Longitude: -81.38-------------------------------------------------------------------------------LEV PRES  HGHT  TEMP  DEWP  RH  DD   WETB DIR SPD THETA THE-V THE-W THE-E   W     mb     m     C     C    %   C     C  deg knt   K     K     K     K    g/kg-------------------------------------------------------------------------------  0 1000   244                                                                 SFC  979   412  -6.4 -15.0  50  8.6  -8.5 104   3 268.4 268.6 265.8 271.8  1.22  2  950   646  -7.0 -17.7  42 10.7  -9.5 111   7 270.0 270.2 266.6 272.9  1.00  3  900  1064 -10.0 -20.0  44 10.0 -12.1 134   8 271.2 271.3 267.1 273.7  0.86  4  850  1505  -8.1 -24.3  26 16.2 -11.3 237   9 277.6 277.7 270.8 279.5  0.63  5  800  1981  -2.6 -23.9  18 21.2  -7.8 273  24 288.3 288.4 276.9 290.5  0.69  6  750  2495  -0.9 -18.9  24 18.0  -6.2 285  34 295.6 295.8 281.0 299.2  1.14  7  700  3044  -1.8 -20.4  23 18.6  -7.2 288  39 300.5 300.7 283.0 304.0  1.08  8  650  3631  -4.1 -26.1  16 22.1  -9.6 287  44 304.4 304.5 284.1 306.7  0.70  9  600  4258  -7.2 -32.3  11 25.1 -12.5 284  49 307.8 307.9 285.1 309.3  0.43 10  550  4931 -11.0 -37.4   9 26.4 -15.6 280  54 311.0 311.1 286.1 312.1  0.28 11  500  5657 -14.8 -35.6  15 20.9 -18.5 280  59 315.0 315.1 287.5 316.3  0.37 12  450  6448 -18.6 -27.8  45  9.1 -20.6 282  66 319.8 320.0 289.6 322.8  0.87 13  400  7319 -22.6 -25.3  78  2.8 -23.2 282  68 325.7 325.9 291.7 329.9  1.22 14  350  8287 -29.2 -30.5  89  1.3 -29.5 282  73 329.3 329.5 292.4 332.5  0.86 15  300  9369 -37.4 -41.5  65  4.1 -37.8 291  87 332.6 332.7 292.8 333.9  0.33 16  250 10598 -48.4 -50.0  83  1.6 -48.4 289  98 334.2 334.2 293.0 334.8  0.16 17  200 12022 -61.6 -61.8  98  0.1 -61.6 291  99 335.1 335.2 293.2 335.3  0.05 18  150 13767 -67.7 -68.7  87  1.0 -67.7 296 106 353.5 353.5 297.4 353.6  0.02 19  100 16196 -71.9 -80.8  25  8.9 -71.9 281  81 388.8 388.8 303.6 388.9  0.01TRP                                             0                              WND                                             0                              Sounding variables and indices1000-500 mb thick:      5412.58 mFreezing level:      Surface below freezingWetbulb zero:        Below groundPrecipitable water:        0.22 inches

 

Date: 3.5 day AVN valid 18Z FRI 25 JAN 13Station: KHKYLatitude:   35.73Longitude: -81.38-------------------------------------------------------------------------------LEV PRES  HGHT  TEMP  DEWP  RH  DD   WETB DIR SPD THETA THE-V THE-W THE-E   W     mb     m     C     C    %   C     C  deg knt   K     K     K     K    g/kg-------------------------------------------------------------------------------  0 1000   179                                                                 SFC  971   412  -3.3  -9.5  62  6.2  -5.2 211   9 272.2 272.5 269.6 277.5  1.92  2  950   584  -5.7 -10.2  71  4.5  -7.0 211  13 271.4 271.7 269.0 276.5  1.85  3  900  1006  -5.9  -7.9  86  2.0  -6.5 215  26 275.4 275.8 272.3 281.9  2.34  4  850  1460   1.6   1.1  97  0.5   1.4 230  43 287.8 288.7 282.1 301.7  4.89  5  800  1950   1.8   1.5  97  0.4   1.7 246  51 293.1 294.1 284.8 308.6  5.33  6  750  2470   0.0  -0.2  98  0.3  -0.1 258  57 296.6 297.5 285.8 311.4  5.02  7  700  3021  -2.7  -3.0  98  0.3  -2.9 262  60 299.5 300.3 286.2 312.6  4.37  8  650  3605  -6.5  -6.7  98  0.3  -6.6 260  62 301.6 302.3 286.2 312.4  3.55  9  600  4226 -10.1 -11.5  89  1.4 -10.6 262  66 304.4 304.9 286.3 312.7  2.63 10  550  4894 -12.1 -15.2  78  3.1 -13.1 268  72 309.7 310.1 287.6 316.6  2.13 11  500  5620 -14.7 -22.2  53  7.5 -16.7 270  79 315.1 315.3 288.5 319.4  1.29 12  450  6411 -19.2 -30.3  37 11.1 -21.4 268  86 319.1 319.3 289.2 321.6  0.68 13  400  7278 -24.4 -34.7  38 10.3 -26.1 265  94 323.3 323.4 290.3 325.1  0.50 14  350  8237 -31.1 -40.2  40  9.1 -32.1 265  99 326.8 326.9 291.2 328.0  0.33 15  300  9310 -39.5 -44.8  57  5.2 -39.9 265 109 329.7 329.7 291.9 330.6  0.24 16  250 10531 -49.2 -53.3  62  4.1 -49.3 268 115 333.0 333.0 292.6 333.4  0.11 17  200 11960 -58.6 -60.7  77  2.1 -58.6 269 113 340.0 340.0 294.4 340.2  0.05 18  150 13740 -64.1 -68.0  59  3.9 -64.1 271 105 359.7 359.7 298.7 359.8  0.03 19  100 16187 -68.7 -78.7  22 10.0 -68.8 270  93 395.0 395.0 304.5 395.0  0.01TRP                                             0                              WND                                             0                              Sounding variables and indices1000-500 mb thick:      5441.04 mFreezing level:      Surface below freezingFreezing level:          860.57 mb =  1364.36 m =  4476.20 ftFreezing level:          749.48 mb =  2475.74 m =  8122.40 ftWetbulb zero:        Below groundPrecipitable water:        0.70 inches
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But is this potential event late in the week one of those "extreme" cases where the cold air reached all the way to Atlanta and East Alabama ? I just have lots of doubts about any ice potential all the way to the Alabama border. I can see us getting screwed out of wintry weather for the 2nd time in a week.

 

This is NOT an extreme case, but some areas of Georgia (and certainly the Carolinas) could squeek out some frozen precipitation. (especially the further north one goes into NC.  Most of the precip will be north of the track and that track is well north of MOST of our areas here in the SE (on most modeling).  If I were in eastern Kentucky or parts of Virginia, and certainly WV I'd not be getting much sleep this week.  As it stands, the trends would have to be pretty dramatic for something significant in the TN valley.  CAD areas of NC could have the second best shot at something more significant, 2nd only to those further north in Virginia and points west through parts of Kentucky.

 

This is still all evolving though, so nothing is set in stone. 

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