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January Pattern and Storm Discussion II


Cold Rain

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It seems that when we have a cold PDO and a warm AMO (like now) that the cold PDO is the dominant factor in determining weather in the US, particularly in the SE. When both are negative (like during the 60-70's), it is a more favorable pattern for the SE but the exact timing of the change from a warm to cold phase is very hard to predict as it tends to fluctuate. Cold PDO's give us more La Nina's than El Ninos while it is the reverse during a warm PDO. Conversely, a warm AMO tends to produce more +NAO and AO while a cold AMO produces a more -NAO/AO. pattern. Looking at that combination, it would seem that a cold PDO and warm AMO don't tend to be big cold/snowy winters for the SE (but remember they just increase the averages of it being true and is not a hard and fast rule). There are of course exceptions depending on other factors and we do not know for sure when the flip will occur, but it does seem likely for a cold AMO to appear sometime in the next 5-15 years and we should still be in a cold PDO for a good part of that periond which hopefully would lead to a greater chance of cold/snowy winters for the SE.

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For who?

this run is further south and more consolidated, which was always a possibility. I don't know if it will dive as much as that, but its just cold enough thanks to the angle of the approach of that s/w and front, that there's enough warm advection, but not too much, so that northeast TN, much of north central, nw NC (probably north of I-40) will have snow with this front, not rain. IF this run is right, and the tend on that model is to inch southward I think or atleast have less warm advection ahead of the front. Similar to a clipper. VA is all snow. Some ice is possible since there is damming shown on Friday. Its a very fast mover.

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Need some Euro analysis between Day 4 an 5. At Day 4, the 850 OC line runs NW to SE along the Ga./SC line -- almost all of NC is under -2 with the NE 2/3 of the state under -4 just as it looks like light precip is moving in. Must be REALLY light???? I guess it's possible it warms up quickly as preip starts?

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Need some Euro analysis between Day 4 an 5. At Day 4, the 850 OC line runs NW to SE along the Ga./SC line -- almost all of NC is under -2 with the NE 2/3 of the state under -4 just as it looks like light precip is moving in. Must be REALLY light???? I guess it's possible it warms up quickly as preip starts?

HKY is about 0.3", probably all frozen (snow/sleet), per the 6 hour panels you touch 32F ST.

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What is this showing? What's the scale?

It's nothing really to write home about. I-40 north right now looks like it could eek out a few quick inches. I was on my phone looking and it appeared at 102 like it was going to be really good for NC even just as a clipper. Puts about .3 or .4 of QPF across most of NC. 

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It's nothing really to write home about. I-40 north right now looks like it could eek out a few quick inches. I was on my phone looking and it appeared at 102 like it was going to be really good for NC even just as a clipper. Puts about .3 or .4 of QPF across most of NC. 

If you don't mind me asking, how does it look for the Norfolk area? Does it look like we would stay all frozen?

 

Thanks in advance!

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It's nothing really to write home about. I-40 north right now looks like it could eek out a few quick inches. I was on my phone looking and it appeared at 102 like it was going to be really good for NC even just as a clipper. Puts about .3 or .4 of QPF across most of NC.

Burger man......... Eeking out a couple of inches this year........IS a big deal. Lol. Good luck NC peeps.

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It's nothing really to write home about. I-40 north right now looks like it could eek out a few quick inches. I was on my phone looking and it appeared at 102 like it was going to be really good for NC even just as a clipper. Puts about .3 or .4 of QPF across most of NC. 

 

Oh, come now, my good sir!  In the midst of the snow drought of two years, a few quick inches of snow is definitely something to get excited over!  I was excited for the snow falling from the sky this past Thursday evening, and it only amounted to 0.25 inch.  A "few" inches of snow (2-3) would be 800-1200% better than that!  So, I'm all on board for watching the trends, at this point...

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If you don't mind me asking, how does it look for the Norfolk area? Does it look like we would stay all frozen?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

ORF is on the edge per the Euro

 

Burger man......... Eeking out a couple of inches this year........IS a big deal. Lol. Good luck NC peeps.

 

See my comment below

 

Just ask my last girlfriend.

 

:lmao:

 

Oh, come now, my good sir!  In the midst of the snow drought of two years, a few quick inches of snow is definitely something to get excited over!  I was excited for the snow falling from the sky this past Thursday evening, and it only amounted to 0.25 inch.  A "few" inches of snow (2-3) would be 800-1200% better than that!  So, I'm all on board for watching the trends, at this point...

 

What I meant is that it's just one run with marginal temps for our back yards. I would be ecstatic with 2-3 inches of snow but you know  how it is by tonight it might show nothing at all but a cool rain for all of NC.

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IMO, again...just MO....Its really simple to see why the pattern has been crap for most of the winter.  The Pacific continues to be a train wreck and will NOT allow for the a good solid dump of Arctic air.  The MJO hasn't really helped with a Southern Stream, and the SOI (SO branch help) has been Positive as well.  I just can't get excited for a pattern that can't start with the Pacific being better.  Is it a guarantee   Well obviously NO, and obviously it doesn't HAVE to be in a good spot for us to see something Wintry, but when you cut the US (or South of the Mason Dixon line) off from the Cold air, its NOT going to come south.  Just my humble opinion  and I hope it gets better.  Honestly, this should just prove the fact that a NEG AO and NEG NAO doesn't mean its a given we see wintry wx down south.  

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IMO, again...just MO....Its really simple to see why the pattern has been crap for most of the winter.  The Pacific continues to be a train wreck and will NOT allow for the a good solid dump of Arctic air.  The MJO hasn't really helped with a Southern Stream, and the SOI (SO branch help) has been Positive as well.  I just can't get excited for a pattern that can't start with the Pacific being better.  Is it a guarantee   Well obviously NO, and obviously it doesn't HAVE to be in a good spot for us to see something Wintry, but when you cut the US (or South of the Mason Dixon line) off from the Cold air, its NOT going to come south.  Just my humble opinion  and I hope it gets better.  Honestly, this should just prove the fact that a NEG AO and NEG NAO doesn't mean its a given we see wintry wx down south.  

 

Absolutely - SE ridge or not, the PAC has been dominating us for the last two years.  Unfortunately, I see nothing to change that fact anytime before January (or February) is done.  This next pass-through looks like status quo south of I-40 (at best).

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 For at least the Atlanta area, the ENSO phase with the highest frequency of major ZR's has been neutral negative (NN), where ENSO is currently, by a wide margin. The frequency of NN winters with a major ZR is ~42%. Compare this 42% to only 19% for all winters, combined, getting at least one major ZR. The 2nd highest frequency for any one ENSO phase is only ~25% (neutral positive and weak El Nino). Looking at major ZR's vs. major S/IP for KATL during NN, there have been about 11 major ZR's vs. only 4 major S/IP's. Keep in mind that there have actually been slightly more major S/IP's than major ZR's for all winters, combined: 35 vs. 29.

 

 Regarding the warm Dec. analogs for ATL, there were two major ZR's during the subsequent late January. These were both during NN ENSO fwiw. There were four major S/IP's though three of them were during El Nino. One was during neutral positive ENSO. None were during NN.

 

 The 10 day period with the most major ZR's at Atlanta for all winters has been 1/21-30.

 

 All of these stats tell me that a major ZR at Atlanta and in much of N GA between now and early Feb. wouldn't be a total surprise. Nevertheless, the current models aren't showing one though some runs have had something close. Therefore, I am not predicting one at this time. Until the models do show something, if ever, there's no reason to expect one and I'll assume the chances to be low. However, if they should at some point happen to move toward a major ZR scenario, I'd then start paying very close attention especially considering the above mentioned climo.

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