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January Pattern and Storm Discussion II


Cold Rain

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000

NOUS42 KNHC 171731

REPRPD

WEATHER RECONNAISSANCE FLIGHTS

CARCAH, NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER, MIAMI, FL.

1230 PM EST THU 17 JANUARY 2013

SUBJECT: WINTER STORM PLAN OF THE DAY (WSPOD)

VALID 18/1100Z TO 19/1100Z JANUARY 2013

WSPOD NUMBER.....12-048

I. ATLANTIC REQUIREMENTS

1. NEGATIVE RECONNAISSANCE REQUIREMENTS.

2. OUTLOOK FOR SUCCEEDING DAY.....NEGATIVE.

II. PACIFIC REQUIREMENTS

1. FLIGHT ONE --NOAA 49--

. A. P56/ DROP 11(44.3N 151.0W)/ 19/0000Z

B. NOAA9 02WSC TRACK56

C. 18/1930Z

D. 16 DROPS ON TRACK AS PUBLISHED

E. AS HIGH AS POSSIBLE/ 19/0600Z

2. SUCCEEDING DAY OUTLOOK.....NEGATIVE.

$$

JWP

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Storm chances do have the tendency to come back on the same day of the week just 1 week later...something to watch but I don't think it will happen.

Funny you brought that up. I'm quite a few years older than you and me and some guys were talking about this very subject earlier today. I've seen this happen on several occasions. Usually it will last 3-4 weeks. I remember it happening a couple times in the 80"s and 90's particularly.

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HPC Extended Forecast Discussion was interesting today....Will not post it all.  But what exactly are they looking at - just giving the pattern a look from the synoptics perspective?  Srain mentioned this on the MB....I agree, I am not sure what they are looking at...I encourage you to go and read the whole text, but this is the portion that I am curious about:

 

GFS/ECMWF OPERATIONALS WERE IN GOOD AGREEMENT TO DAY 4.5 (22/00Z)

WITH THE CORE OF THE ARCTIC AIRMASS SLOWLY MIGRATING

EAST-NORTHEASTWARD FROM THE UPPER MS VALLEY TO MAINE AND NORTHERN

NEW ENGLAND. THERE ARE FEW DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THESE 2 PIECES OF

GUIDANCE WITH THIS OVERALL AREAL SPREAD OF THIS MODIFIED ARCTIC

BOUNDARY THROUGH DAY 6 IN THE MIDWEST...EAST...SOUTHEAST...AND

WITH A GRADUAL WARMUP FROM WEST TO EAST ACROSS THE

NORTHERN/CENTRAL HIGH PLAINS. BY DAY 4...THERE IS REASONABLE

EVIDENCE OF A COASTAL WAVE DEVELOPING ATOP THIS SLOPED ARCTIC

FRONT...AND BENEATH A COMPLEX 250MB JET STRUCTURE EAST OF THE

MISSISSIPPI RIVER. ENOUGH SUPPORT/EVIDENCE DURING THE LAST 48

HOURS TO REQUEST A SERIES OF NOAA G4 WINTER RECON FLIGHTS TO

SAMPLE THE NORTH CENTRAL PACIFIC BETWEEN HAWAII AND ALASKA.

 

Good catch!  Very interesting.

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HPC Extended Forecast Discussion was interesting today....Will not post it all.  But what exactly are they looking at - just giving the pattern a look from the synoptics perspective?  Srain mentioned this on the MB....I agree, I am not sure what they are looking at...I encourage you to go and read the whole text, but this is the portion that I am curious about:

 

GFS/ECMWF OPERATIONALS WERE IN GOOD AGREEMENT TO DAY 4.5 (22/00Z)

WITH THE CORE OF THE ARCTIC AIRMASS SLOWLY MIGRATING

EAST-NORTHEASTWARD FROM THE UPPER MS VALLEY TO MAINE AND NORTHERN

NEW ENGLAND. THERE ARE FEW DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THESE 2 PIECES OF

GUIDANCE WITH THIS OVERALL AREAL SPREAD OF THIS MODIFIED ARCTIC

BOUNDARY THROUGH DAY 6 IN THE MIDWEST...EAST...SOUTHEAST...AND

WITH A GRADUAL WARMUP FROM WEST TO EAST ACROSS THE

NORTHERN/CENTRAL HIGH PLAINS. BY DAY 4...THERE IS REASONABLE

EVIDENCE OF A COASTAL WAVE DEVELOPING ATOP THIS SLOPED ARCTIC

FRONT...AND BENEATH A COMPLEX 250MB JET STRUCTURE EAST OF THE

MISSISSIPPI RIVER. ENOUGH SUPPORT/EVIDENCE DURING THE LAST 48

HOURS TO REQUEST A SERIES OF NOAA G4 WINTER RECON FLIGHTS TO

SAMPLE THE NORTH CENTRAL PACIFIC BETWEEN HAWAII AND ALASKA.

 

 

Did they mention if the sky would be healed by then?.......Just playin Wilkes. :P

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This must be the concern:

 The entire read by HPC is pretty interesting today.  Actually, the rest of the discussion puts the referenced paragraph into context.  After looking at the models, I just couldn't find what they were talking about...or even if it applied to the East which I feel it must after reading it several times.  I couldn't completey tell if they are concerned w/ a storm impacting the lee of the Rockies or if a storm may leave that area and slide across the front they mentioned.  But yes, the image you posted would fit their discussion, but it seems several days past what they would even worry about normally.  But the way that front is draped acroos the U.S. certainly would spell trouble w/ the MJO where it is.  It does seem that somebody over there is reading a pattern and maybe catching something before the models.   I know you can find this on your own easily, but I'll link this for those who might not know where this discussion is...

 

http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/discussions/hpcdiscussions.php?disc=pmdepd

 

Edit:  Eyewall,  that has to be what they are looking at...18z certainly has an interesting look.   Not saying that is the exact scenario, but I think they are interested in that piece of energy. 

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Another possible clue for the HPC suspicion. Fom a met in MA thread, sorry forgot his name.

"Gotta keep an eye on the system next Fri-Sat, the 25-26. Very Miller B-ish, come due east from the OH Vly, however the EC was correctly trending the low farther south. The antecedent cold air is key...if the confluence to the north and the lllvl cold air is as strong as we think it can be next week, and knowing that the models love to scour it out too soon in the medium range, we may have a legit shot here..."

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 The entire read by HPC is pretty interesting today.  Actually, the rest of the discussion puts the referenced paragraph into context.  After looking at the models, I just couldn't find what they were talking about...or even if it applied to the East which I feel it must after reading it several times.  I couldn't completey tell if they are concerned w/ a storm impacting the lee of the Rockies or if a storm may leave that area and slide across the front they mentioned.  But yes, the image you posted would fit their discussion, but it seems several days past what they would even worry about normally.  But the way that front is draped acroos the U.S. certainly would spell trouble w/ the MJO where it is.  It does seem that somebody over there is reading a pattern and maybe catching something before the models.   I know you can find this on your own easily, but I'll link this for those who might not know where this discussion is...

 

http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/discussions/hpcdiscussions.php?disc=pmdepd

 

Edit:  Eyewall,  that has to be what they are looking at...18z certainly has an interesting look.   Not saying that is the exact scenario, but I think they are interested in that piece of energy. 

And so it begins again.......................

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 The entire read by HPC is pretty interesting today.  Actually, the rest of the discussion puts the referenced paragraph into context.  After looking at the models, I just couldn't find what they were talking about...or even if it applied to the East which I feel it must after reading it several times.  I couldn't completey tell if they are concerned w/ a storm impacting the lee of the Rockies or if a storm may leave that area and slide across the front they mentioned.  But yes, the image you posted would fit their discussion, but it seems several days past what they would even worry about normally.  But the way that front is draped acroos the U.S. certainly would spell trouble w/ the MJO where it is.  It does seem that somebody over there is reading a pattern and maybe catching something before the models.   I know you can find this on your own easily, but I'll link this for those who might not know where this discussion is...

 

http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/discussions/hpcdiscussions.php?disc=pmdepd

 

Edit:  Eyewall,  that has to be what they are looking at...18z certainly has an interesting look.   Not saying that is the exact scenario, but I think they are interested in that piece of energy. 

I looked at the 12z GFS before I read the HPC and (though I am not good at this) I thought they were talking about the little piece of energy that starts in OK/AR line at 150hr and seems to join or phase? into the storm around the Great Lakes. I've lurked for years around here but I'm determined to say something correct about a model at least once.

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Why would they do a recon flight?  Can they learn things like when they fly into hurricanes.  

 

Often when energy is coming on shore and could turn into a big storm they like to fly a recon flight in to get real time information in order to ensure that the models are capturing the data correctly. If not then it can have major implications down stream. Often during winter when there are possible big storms being showed on models they will fly in and get new data for the models to ingest and give a better chance of predicting the weather better.

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Why would they do a recon flight?  Can they learn things like when they fly into hurricanes.  

 

For some reason they have an idea that this energy needs to be sampled much before it effects us down here in the lower 48.  Don't see that too much, so something's up.  Maybe they have some awesome private super model they're using that's showing a blizzard later on or something.

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Often when energy is coming on shore and could turn into a big storm they like to fly a recon flight in to get real time information in order to ensure that the models are capturing the data correctly. If not then it can have major implications down stream. Often during winter when there are possible big storms being showed on models they will fly in and get new data for the models to ingest and give a better chance of predicting the weather better.

 

 

For some reason they have an idea that this energy needs to be sampled much before it effects us down here in the lower 48.  Don't see that too much, so something's up.  Maybe they have some awesome private super model they're using that's showing a blizzard later on or something.

 

 

Thank you burgertime and Shawn.  That make a lot of sense, keep feeding current info into the compute so the model doesn't stray to far.  I need to go to the 101 forum and read about Models.  I'd complain about the bust last night, but I got hammered March of '09 with 11-12 inches.  I really can't complain, have to take the good and the bad.  

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Somebody should be sounding the alarm for late next week/weekend! Is nobody else looking at the gfs? It's very close to something big if not already there for some.

Tw

 

 Yeah, based on warm Dec. analogs, I do think we need to watch it and the rest of the last part of Jan. and into early Feb. for a potential major ZR. On a second look, it does appear to be producing some ZR in WNC on 1/25.

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