Guest Pamela Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Geography could be an issue too. I was just looking at temps and BOS isn't colder than PVD for average temp which actually surprised me, but their snowfall is more. Though their upper limits are similar...both have a season between 100-110" and a seaosn just below 100"...BOS just gets a lot more seasons in the 60-90" than PVD. Though PVD radiates much better than BOS, so that might be the issue. Indeed the BOS average highs are colder than PVD, but their mins are warmer. Radiational cooling has no effect on snowfall from what we know. Kind of an interesting topic to look at. Geography def plays a role, but its difficult to quantify. PVD always interesting area...I guess around 38" annually...super steep gradient 10 miles to the west in Foster...with a mean in the mid 50's...IIRC. (at 600 feet or so). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Of course...FOK is likely the coldest spot on the Island with regards to morning minima...and since there isn't a huge spread Island wide in maxima....one of the coldest overall...but one of the worst spots for snowfall. Yeah same reason that the CT River valley in spots of MA are great for cold but they stink at snowfall relatively speaking because of geography. I believe ORH is warmer than ORE (Orange, MA) for this same reason but its a much better snowfall spot. A lot of factors for sure. Average temperature along the coast is a pretty good proxy for trying to figure out what perhaps past climate might have been like in much colder times, but its not perfect by any stretch. The precip condundrum you brought up is another one. There is evidence that it was a much drier climate during our really cold episodes of the LIA...granted much more precip fell as snow, but the dryness puts a cap on the snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 PVD always interesting area...I guess around 38" annually...super steep gradient 10 miles to the west in Foster...with a mean in the mid 50's...IIRC. (at 600 feet or so). Yeah, Foster is actually at about 58.5" or so for their 1974-present average since the coop has existed. Huge gradient in RI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris L Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 2010-2011 would have smashed 1995-1996 snow totals by February 2. We are forgetting the super blizzard of February 1-2, 2011. The block had been a non factor by then. Had the block and the super amplified pattern been there, we would have gotten quite a monster event; (it was a very dynamic system, thunder everywhere with no Atlantic moisutre feed). We would have been probably buried with 2-3 feet of snow. And we had around 18-24" on the ground prior to that ice storm. Imagine getting 2-3 feet of snow ontop of that? Now that's a "what could have been." situation. They talked about this in the Mid-Atlantic subfoiurm (I believe it was TerpEast, a meteorologist who brought the idea up). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 2010-2011 would have smashed 1995-1996 snow totals by February 2. We are forgetting the super blizzard of February 1-2, 2011. The block had been a non factor by then. Had the block and the super amplified pattern been there, we would have gotten quite a monster event; (it was a very dynamic system, thunder everywhere with no Atlantic moisutre feed). We would have been probably buried with 2-3 feet of snow. Easy to say in retrospect, but if the block was a monster to make Feb 1-2, 2011 a great storm, that means it would have probably suppressed the Jan 26-27 event which was close to whiffing, but just got far NW enough to smoke I-95. So its a hard game to play and get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pamela Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Yeah same reason that the CT River valley in spots of MA are great for cold but they stink at snowfall relatively speaking because of geography. I believe ORH is warmer than ORE (Orange, MA) for this same reason but its a much better snowfall spot. A lot of factors for sure. Average temperature along the coast is a pretty good proxy for trying to figure out what perhaps past climate might have been like in much colder times, but its not perfect by any stretch. The precip condundrum you brought up is another one. There is evidence that it was a much drier climate during our really cold episodes of the LIA...granted much more precip fell as snow, but the dryness puts a cap on the snow. The other huge factor and constant is altitude...Albany is a delightfully cold place in the winter...but I still consider what took place there in December 1992 unbelievable...6 inches or so....downsloped to death by the Taconics and the Helderberg (sp) Escarpment...while the Berkshires basked in 4 feet of powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris L Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Easy to say in retrospect, but if the block was a monster to make Feb 1-2, 2011 a great storm, that means it would have probably suppressed the Jan 26-27 event which was close to whiffing, but just got far NW enough to smoke I-95. So its a hard game to play and get it right. Will, it is easy to look back and pick it apart, but I really would have wanted to see the February 1-2 blizzard come up the east coast. That had serious potential for a grand scale event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 The other huge factor and constant is altitude...Albany is a delightfully cold place in the winter...but I still consider what took place there in December 1992 unbelievable...6 inches or so....downsloped to death by the Taconics and the Heldsberg (sp) Escarpment...while the Berkshires basked in 4 feet of powder. Yeah that was an all timer. There's a reason that storm is nicknamed "The Downslope Nor' Easter" (you can google it and it will come up, lol). ALB is about 1.5F colder than ORH in the winter on average...but averages about 7" less in annual snowfall. Local effects hurt it in that department. The temp difference is all in the low temps...radiational cooling makes for some frigid nights, but it doesn't help out when the flakes are flying. Some of the Helderbergs just to their west by 5-7 miles probably average 20" more than them per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pamela Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Yeah that was an all timer. There's a reason that storm is nicknamed "The Downslope Nor' Easter" (you can google it and it will come up, lol). Though I've heard rumors ORH did adequately... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Though I've heard rumors ORH did adequately... You don't want to get me started on that storm. I'd talk for hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pamela Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Yeah that was an all timer. There's a reason that storm is nicknamed "The Downslope Nor' Easter" (you can google it and it will come up, lol). ALB is about 1.5F colder than ORH in the winter on average...but averages about 7" less in annual snowfall. Local effects hurt it in that department. The temp difference is all in the low temps...radiational cooling makes for some frigid nights, but it doesn't help out when the flakes are flying. Some of the Helderbergs just to their west by 5-7 miles probably average 20" more than them per year. The 800 foot difference in height is important...+ ORH being closer to one of the general storm tracks that prevails January through March (Hatteras to the Gulf of Maine)...Albany might do better with weak storms that move eastbound along the US / Canadien border (the ones where Burlington does well)....and some rotting lake effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle W Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Wow, great info Unc. Would have never thought it rained that month. Must have been a quick 12 hr warm pulse followed by -20c 850s. it was actually 1/10/77 we got 1.24" of precipitation that started as 1.5" of snow...Temperatures hit the low 40's during the morning with some fog...Then we got a quick freeze and left over snow and ice/water on the ground froze...It stayed on the ground until mid February... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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