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Moving past first week of January General Discussion/banter


Baroclinic Zone

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Here's a list of all -EPO/-NAO January and Februarys since 1970:

 

February 2007

February 2006

January 2004

January 2003

January 1997

January 1996

February 1996

February 1986

January 1985

January 1982

January 1980

January 1979

February 1978

January 1977

January 1971

January 1970

 

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I still like the more relaxed look on the Euro ensembles...I do not want Jan 2004. Keep us in an active pattern (unlike this current garbage) and we usually clean up.

 

I realize the gefs is rather cold...but the PV is located in a completely different position than Jan 04.  That PV sat just to your NE...fhis PV is setting up to your NW.

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I realize the gefs is rather cold...but the PV is located in a completely different position than Jan 04.  That PV sat just to your NE...fhis PV is setting up to your NW.

 

The ensemble mean would never show it that far SE at this range, but there is a lot of "stretching" to the SE of the PV over Quebec and Nova Scotia on some of these GEFS runs which would imply there are times when there it an awful lot of confluence there and likely very cold temps.

 

 

I'm not that worried about it personally. I'm happy most progs have the PV over Hudson Bay right now. I'd rather have that than a suppressed pattern.

 

But we really don't have any idea how all these PV lobes will act once it gets further south. I'm just throwing out the idea that I'd rather have a bit more relaxation which argues for a lot more storminess. I obviously don't want a bunch of cutters, but sometimes that is what you risk if you want an active pattern.

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I realize the gefs is rather cold...but the PV is located in a completely different position than Jan 04.  That PV sat just to your NE...fhis PV is setting up to your NW.

 

which is great to steer storms towards us...that is why i like this pattern...even if the nao is weaker and east based

 

btw this weekend will probably feel pretty torch

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The ensemble mean would never show it that far SE at this range, but there is a lot of "stretching" to the SE of the PV over Quebec and Nova Scotia on some of these GEFS runs which would imply there are times when there it an awful lot of confluence there and likely very cold temps.

 

 

I'm not that worried about it personally. I'm happy most progs have the PV over Hudson Bay right now. I'd rather have that than a suppressed pattern.

 

But we really don't have any idea how all these PV lobes will act once it gets further south. I'm just throwing out the idea that I'd rather have a bit more relaxation which argues for a lot more storminess. I obviously don't want a bunch of cutters, but sometimes that is what you risk if you want an active pattern.

 

Jan 94

:jerry:

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i hope the pacific doesn't screw it up. 

 

Yeah I'd like to see better ridging there, but that's why I figured if we can get a -NAO..it will help keep whatever is left of the PV closer to us. Last time we did have a -NAO, but no cold in Canada....at least we'll have that now. But, you do want that cross polar source to hang around..not get washed out by the PAC jet. I'm liking what I see so far, but it also would not be wise to understand how it might not be great here. Despite a crappy airmass....I was about 8 miles away from having a normal December..lol.

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If you look at the H5 anomalies, this will be a lot different than December. Yeah in December we had ridging in western Canada at times and a west based -NAO...but you has insane + temp departures. Now, we just replaced that garbage with a PV that has the lowest H5 heights on the globe.

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It seems like there's more of a coastal worry than interior . Does it have anything to do with where folks reside , in regards to the differ wrong opinions from next Monday onward

 

nah i'm not concerned about my location vs. the interior. i'm more concerned that the pacific craps out on down the road. 

 

right now everything still looks decent. my worry is - whether warranted or not i don't know - that we see guidance start to back off the -EPO look and/or it ends up short-lived.

 

the other thing i think needs to be remembered is that this transition may take a while. i.e. from the current torch pattern to something more favorable. i don't think we're going to see winter come back overnight (i hope it does). fighting the -pna might be tough for a while. 

 

JMHO

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The ensemble mean would never show it that far SE at this range, but there is a lot of "stretching" to the SE of the PV over Quebec and Nova Scotia on some of these GEFS runs which would imply there are times when there it an awful lot of confluence there and likely very cold temps.

 

 

I'm not that worried about it personally. I'm happy most progs have the PV over Hudson Bay right now. I'd rather have that than a suppressed pattern.

 

But we really don't have any idea how all these PV lobes will act once it gets further south. I'm just throwing out the idea that I'd rather have a bit more relaxation which argues for a lot more storminess. I obviously don't want a bunch of cutters, but sometimes that is what you risk if you want an active pattern.

 

yeah I don't see it a huge concern at this juncture, either.

 

I would think the risk of suppression would increase if a +PNA pops.  If you maintain a -PNA I don't see suppression being a big problem.

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This east based NAO on the Euro is starting to remind me of the period when I was in Europe ..late Nov to mid Dec. It's going to be great for them bringing all the cold down from Eastern Scandy and Russia. Hope we do better this time. When I left for my trip the cold pattern was supposed to be just around the corner here, but you had three weeks of cutters before some cold finally got in before Xmas.

 

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nah i'm not concerned about my location vs. the interior. i'm more concerned that the pacific craps out on down the road. 

 

right now everything still looks decent. my worry is - whether warranted or not i don't know - that we see guidance start to back off the -EPO look and/or it ends up short-lived.

 

the other thing i think needs to be remembered is that this transition may take a while. i.e. from the current torch pattern to something more favorable. i don't think we're going to see winter come back overnight (i hope it does). fighting the -pna might be tough for a while. 

 

JMHO

 

The idea of a -EPO has been extremely unreliable recently. Even in 2010-2011 it wasn't amazing. It broke down often.

 

I'm holding out more hope for the -NAO pattern. Even if the EPO craps out a bit, a solid -NAO this time of the year should be pretty good...especially since we will at least get a very good initial dump of cold air into Canada.

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nah i'm not concerned about my location vs. the interior. i'm more concerned that the pacific craps out on down the road.

right now everything still looks decent. my worry is - whether warranted or not i don't know - that we see guidance start to back off the -EPO look and/or it ends up short-lived.

the other thing i think needs to be remembered is that this transition may take a while. i.e. from the current torch pattern to something more favorable. i don't think we're going to see winter come back overnight (i hope it does). fighting the -pna might be tough for a while.

JMHO

I think next week while not deep winter might offer up enough cold to have that middle or end of week storm be wintry. I don't think we'll see ball numbing cold until the last week of the month. But if we get that arctic front to press south and set up over the mid atl like it looks like it wants to do next week might turn out fun around here by end of week. Even climo this time of year is plenty cold for snow/ ice
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If we want snow next week, we have to hope the energy comes out of the Southwest less concentrated and more sheared. i.e  a gradient pattern.  Any strong vort is gonna want to cut west with the remaining SE ridge and NAO not very helpful yet.

 

I think next week while not deep winter might offer up enough cold to have that middle or end of week storm be wintry. I don't think we'll see ball numbing cold until the last week of the month. But if we get that arctic front to press south and set up over the mid atl like it looks like it wants to do next week might turn out fun around here by end of week. Even climo this time of year is plenty cold for snow/ ice

 

 

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The idea of a -EPO has been extremely unreliable recently. Even in 2010-2011 it wasn't amazing. It broke down often.

 

I'm holding out more hope for the -NAO pattern. Even if the EPO craps out a bit, a solid -NAO this time of the year should be pretty good...especially since we will at least get a very good initial dump of cold air into Canada.

 

That's what I'm hoping for, because at least now any -NAO will help pump more Canadian-like air into the region, unlike last time.

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really nice arctic outbreak on the gfs....but then the pacific retrogrades and the pattern relaxes a bit, but maybe reloads near the end?

we're going to have a fighting chance with that much cold to the north/northwest. Despite the nuisances we continue to see the 540 line well south of us for a change.

Unfamiliar pattern, but maybe it can produce.

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