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January 2013 General Discussion


Chicago Storm

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Josh, I think we are in a 1932-1935 type period now.... Disaster, thankfully it will end eventually.

haha its amazing what a week of bare ground does to long term memory ;) We are not even in the same ballpark LOL. Technically last January wasnt that bad in total snowfall. And after a closer to seasonal 1936, we had a very low snow 1937-1938.

 

JAN......Snow....1"+ snwcvr dys....Peak Snow Dpth...Mean temp

1932.......0.9"..........0...........T..........36.7F

1933.......0.4"..........0...........T..........34.7F

1934.......6.0"..........8...........3".........30.0F

1935.......1.4"..........4...........1".........24.8F

1936.....10.1"........23...........4".........21.7F

1937.......4.4"..........8...........3".........29.7F

1938.......4.4"........13...........2".........24.3F

*****

2007.......6.4"........11...........3".........29.6F

2008.....13.8"........15...........4".........28.9F

2009.....25.2"........25.........14".........17.3F

2010.......8.9"........13...........5".........25.0F

2011.....17.9"........26...........7".........21.9F

2012.......9.3"........10...........3".........30.7F

2013.......0.6"+......10+.........6".........???

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It would be great if Toronto could see an inch or so of snow from the arctic front to replace what we will lose tomorrow.

 

I think Ontario has a good shot at seeing snow from the front itself. Quite unlikely this far back to the west.

 

Hit 43° today. 33° temperature spread today!

Still had some sleet and ice frozen the ground in the shade late this afternoon.

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Regarding below zero temps in Chicago...

PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE CHICAGO IL

1207 PM CST THU JAN 17 2013 /107 PM EST THU JAN 17 2013

LONGER RANGE FORECAST MODELS CONTINUE TO SUGGEST A VERY STRONG

BLAST OF ARCTIC AIR WILL COME BARRELING INTO THE REGION LATER

THIS WEEKEND AND ESPECIALLY INTO EARLY NEXT WEEK. THIS WILL LIKELY

BE THE COLDEST AIRMASS TO HIT CHICAGO SINCE THE BIG COLD SNAP BACK

AROUND FEBRUARY 10TH 2011 WHEN THE LOW TEMPERATURE DROPPED TO -9

OFFICIALLY IN CHICAGO. WHILE CURRENT FORECASTS ARE NOT THAT

COLD...THEY DO SUGGEST LOWS COULD APPROACH ZERO IN CHICAGO. THE

PROSPECTS OF ANY MEANINGFUL SNOWFALL BETWEEN NOW AND EARLY NEXT

WEEK APPEAR VERY LOW...SO JUST HOW UNUSUAL WOULD IT BE FOR

TEMPERATURES TO GET BELOW ZERO IN CHICAGO WITHOUT ANY SNOW COVER?

BETWEEN 1960 AND 2010 THERE HAVE BEEN 469 DAYS THAT HAVE RECORDED

LOW TEMPERATURES BELOW ZERO AT CHICAGO O`HARE...OF WHICH ONLY 16

HAVE OCCURRED WITH AN OFFICIAL SNOW DEPTH OF ZERO. THERE WERE 45

DAYS WITH JUST A TRACE OF SNOW ON THE GROUND AT O`HARE...WHICH

MEANS ONLY ABOUT 3 PERCENT OF ALL SUBZERO DAYS IN THAT 50 YEAR

PERIOD OCCURRED WITHOUT ANY SNOW ON THE GROUND AT O`HARE AND ONLY

ABOUT 13 PERCENT WITH ONLY A TRACE OF SNOW ON THE GROUND.

WHILE SNOW ON THE GROUND AT A GIVEN REPORTING STATION OBVIOUSLY

HAS A LARGE IMPACT ON TEMPERATURES...EVEN SNOW COVER UPSTREAM

WILL PLAY A ROLE IN THE LIKELIHOOD OF SUBZERO TEMPERATURES. OF THE

17 DAYS THAT O`HARE SAW SUBZERO TEMPERATURES WITH NO SNOW ON THE

GROUND...THE MAJORITY OF THEM (10) ROCKFORD HAD AT LEAST AN INCH

OF SNOW ON THE GROUND AND ONLY 3 OF THOSE 17 DAYS DID MADISON

WISCONSIN NOT HAVE AT LEAST 5 INCHES OF SNOW ON THE GROUND. IN

FACT...5 OF THE DAYS MADISON ACTUALLY HAD 10 INCHES OR MORE OF

SNOW ON THE GROUND...SO THE UPSTREAM SNOW COVER LIKELY HELPED

ALLOW TEMPERATURES TO FALL BELOW ZERO. CURRENTLY THERE IS MINIMAL

AMOUNT OF SNOW COVER UPSTREAM WITH NO SNOW COVER ON THE GROUND

OFFICIALLY IN ROCKFORD AND ONLY AN INCH ON THE GROUND IN MADISON

WISCONSIN.

ONE OF THE TOOLS FORECASTERS COMMONLY USE TO FORECAST HIGH AND LOW

TEMPERATURES ARE THE TEMPERATURES AT 850MB (AROUND 5000FT ABOVE

THE GROUND). NOT UNEXPECTEDLY...LOOKING BACK AT THE APPROXIMATE

850MB TEMPERATURES DURING DAYS WITH SUBZERO TEMPERATURES AND NO

SNOW COVER AT O`HARE...IT TOOK COLDER 850MB TEMPERATURES ON

AVERAGE TO PRODUCE SUBZERO LOWS THAN IT DOES WHEN THERE IS SNOW ON

THE GROUND. FOR NON-SNOW COVER SUBZERO DAYS THE AVERAGE 850MB

TEMPERATURE WAS AROUND -21C AND AS COLD AS -29C...WHILE THE

AVERAGE 850MB TEMPERATURE FOR ALL SUBZERO DAYS IN LATE JANUARY IS

-17C.

WHILE IT IS EXTREMELY RARE TO SEE SUBZERO TEMPERATURES WITHOUT ANY

SNOW ON THE GROUND IN CHICAGO...HISTORY SHOWS IT HAS HAPPENED AND

IT CAN HAPPEN AGAIN. CERTAINLY THE LACK OF SNOW COVER HERE AND

UPSTREAM WILL MAKE THE TASK OF GETTING BELOW ZERO OFFICIALLY IN

CHICAGO MUCH HARDER THAN IT WOULD BE IF THERE WAS A BIG SNOW PACK

UPSTREAM.

$$

IZZI

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Seems to be subtle cooling trends on recent model runs. 00z NAM/GFS bring 850 mb temps of -25C to -27C into ORD and -23C to -25C here.

If that verifies, very impressive for around here. We did some stats using the NARR at the office, the coldest 850 temp observed over nrn IL from 1979-2010 was -32. If there's gonna be an airmass that gets below 0 at ORD even without snowpack, this might be it. But the stats Gino put together show it'll still be tough since nearby upstream areas won't have a snowpack either. Our afternoon forecast went with +1 for ORD.

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If that verifies, very impressive for around here. We did some stats using the NARR at the office, the coldest 850 temp observed over nrn IL from 1979-2010 was -32. If there's gonna be an airmass that gets below 0 at ORD even without snowpack, this might be it. But the stats Gino put together show it'll still be tough since nearby upstream areas won't have a snowpack either. Our afternoon forecast went with +1 for ORD.

Do you know the 3 dates that ORD went below zero (with no snow) and Madison had less than 5" on the ground? Would be interesting to look at those setups.

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Do you know the 3 dates that ORD went below zero (with no snow) and Madison had less than 5" on the ground? Would be interesting to look at those setups.

I don't know them offhand but I should be able to look them up in the morning. Thankfully it's only 50 yrs of data. If I get the chance I'll try to put together a composite mean for those 3 days.

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I don't know them offhand but I should be able to look them up in the morning. Thankfully it's only 50 yrs of data. If I get the chance I'll try to put together a composite mean for those 3 days.

Sounds good.

I'm guessing that -32C you mentioned was probably in January 1985? Those maps from the 19th-20th are some of the craziest maps I've ever seen. :lol:

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Sounds good.

I'm guessing that -32C you mentioned was probably in January 1985? Those maps from the 19th-20th are some of the craziest maps I've ever seen. :lol:

 

Only time i ever saw OES when i lived at the coast was during that Arctic outbreak. That was some brutal cold. I had just moved to the coast and thought i had moved to the Arctic coast instead. lol Missed nearly a week of school between the brutal cold temps ( yes they closed school there for the cold ) and snow.

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00z MEX mos roundup for Tue morning. MI/OH don't get posted since they will be modified due to being downstream of the Lakes. :P:

LSE: -16

MSN: -12

GRB: -14

MKE: -7

MLI: -3

RFD: -8

ORD: -5

LAF: -2

IND: 0

FWA: 0

STL: 6

 

 I wonder if that could help strengthen the LES in these parts via a stronger convergence zone? Could ofcourse kill flake size as well.

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Only time i ever saw OES when i lived at the coast was during that Arctic outbreak. That was some brutal cold. I had just moved to the coast and thought i had moved to the Arctic coast instead. lol Missed nearly a week of school between the brutal cold temps ( yes they closed school there for the cold ) and snow.

Well, something interesting usually happens whenever the PV bodily plunges into the lower 48.

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?

GGEM has a nice swath of snow around D6 with a juicy clipper.  The GFS jackpots Cincy and the OV with a southern slider.  C?ompletely different set-ups, but same end product.  Maybe the next time frame to watch, at least.

Ha! Does anyone remember what happened 35 years ago to the days (25-26th) when a juicy clipper hooked up with a southern slider?
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