TugHillMatt Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 There are definitely glacial remnants still, bits of snow in yards and piles larger than couches in spots. http://www.americanwx.com/bb/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=84432'>Photo Jan 12, 11 43 05 AM.jpg Did you photoshop that couch in there or is there actually a couch there? What a view! Sit there and watch it melt.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spwild47 Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 While in the short term, the status of the ground being frozen or not frozen while snow is falling is important to whether the snow sticks or melts, I doubt that it makes any difference once the snow has fell. Heat transfer from ground through snow to the atmosphere continues regardless of whether the ground was frozen when the snow fell. The cooling of the ground beneath takes place at a slower pace due to the insulation effect of the snow, but it still takes place due to thermodynamic principles of heat transfer... Snow covered lakes continue to thicken ice depth even with snow on top..albeit more slowly than in snow free areas of the lake..just as snow covered ground can continue to freeze, as long as the atmospheric temperature is below 32 degrees Wow. I am guessing the ground didn't have a chance to freeze before the snowfall either, which probably increased the rate of melting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TugHillMatt Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 While in the short term, the status of the ground being frozen or not frozen while snow is falling is important to whether the snow sticks or melts, I doubt that it makes any difference once the snow has fell. Heat transfer from ground through snow to the atmosphere continues regardless of whether the ground was frozen when the snow fell. The cooling of the ground beneath takes place at a slower pace due to the insulation effect of the snow, but it still takes place due to thermodynamic principles of heat transfer... Snow covered lakes continue to thicken ice depth even with snow on top..albeit more slowly than in snow free areas of the lake..just as snow covered ground can continue to freeze, as long as the atmospheric temperature is below 32 degrees Thanks for the lesson. So you think the ground below was slowly freezing? I don't know...when I lived in the Muskokas of Ontario, there would be muddy, slushy mud underneath two feet of snow. No frozen ground whatsoever. Hmmm, interesting discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtlehurricane Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Did you photoshop that couch in there or is there actually a couch there? What a view! Sit there and watch it melt.... Actually a couch there. What I'm unsure of is if it was buried under snow or if someone put it out there during the melt. MSN just reported a depth of 2", I doubt they have a solid 2", probably averaging the drifts with the clear spots somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on_wx Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 It's a balmy 54 right now perfect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWXwx Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 I had to take advantage of 50+ degree temps by heading to the Mississinewa Dam near Peru, IN to do a little crappie/walleye fishing. It's not often that the weather is nice enough in January to open water fish. I was doing quite well, too, until they opened the gates to release more water. With a combination of snowmelt and .50" of rain, they had to start releasing water. Also, we are expecting at least another inch overnight. I might even hear a couple of roars of thunder. It's looking like some areas could get almost 2". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 62 at IND and 58 here...come on 60. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Euro and GFS in full agreement in cold period.... Just need to get it to verify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlogin Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 BULLETIN - EAS ACTIVATION REQUESTED TORNADO WARNING NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE PADUCAH KY 219 PM CST SAT JAN 12 2013 THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN PADUCAH HAS ISSUED A * TORNADO WARNING FOR... SOUTHEASTERN MASSAC COUNTY IN SOUTHERN ILLINOIS... SOUTHEASTERN POPE COUNTY IN SOUTHERN ILLINOIS... NORTHEASTERN CARLISLE COUNTY IN WESTERN KENTUCKY... NORTHWESTERN GRAVES COUNTY IN WESTERN KENTUCKY... SOUTHWESTERN LIVINGSTON COUNTY IN WESTERN KENTUCKY... MCCRACKEN COUNTY IN WESTERN KENTUCKY... * UNTIL 300 PM CST. * AT 214 PM CST...RADAR INDICATED A SEVERE THUNDERSTORM CAPABLE OF PRODUCING A TORNADO. THIS DANGEROUS STORM WAS LOCATED 6 MILES SOUTHEAST OF LOVELACEVILLE...OR 10 MILES SOUTHWEST OF LONE OAK... MOVING NORTHEAST AT 25 MPH. * LOCATIONS IN THE WARNED AREA INCLUDE... LONE OAK...PADUCAH...REIDLAND...BROOKPORT AND LEDBETTER. THIS INCLUDES INTERSTATE 24 BETWEEN EXITS 3 AND 11. PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS... MOTORISTS SHOULD NOT TAKE SHELTER UNDER HIGHWAY OVERPASSES. AS A LAST RESORT...EITHER PARK YOUR VEHICLE AND STAY PUT...OR ABANDON YOUR VEHICLE AND LIE DOWN IN A LOW LYING AREA. HEAVY RAINFALL MAY OBSCURE THIS TORNADO. DO NOT WAIT TO SEE OR HEAR THE TORNADO. TAKE COVER NOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowstormcanuck Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Made it to 59 at 3pm at YYZ. Down to 56 now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclone77 Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Hit 52 early this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spwild47 Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Well there are a few exceptions to the conduction of heat from soil to snow....one would be when the snowpack reaches a depth that is so deep that "full insulation" is seen and the diurnal (daily) variations in temperature of the atmosphere are not reflected in the soil temperature...that snow depth appears to be about anywhere from 4 to 8 inches according to what I have read...so in other words if you have greater than 4-8 inches, on a daily basis, the soil will not "see" the daily temperature changes above ground... So certainly unfrozen gound blanketed by deep enough snow quickly enough could remain unfrozen...it would depend on the depth and density of the snowpack and the temperature gradient from atmosphere to soil.. However, another process is at work when air temperatures reach above 32 degrees..and that is meltwater from snow on the top layer trickling down throughout the snowpack and resting on the surface or saturating the soil...if that happens, and then you have temperatures stay below freezing for long enough that the meltwater refreezes, you now have soil with ice on top and snow above. (Snowmobilers love this frozen base)...effectively you have traded top level snow, melted, and sandwiched it between the snow and soil. The process of freezing the ice releases heat temporarily (latent heat of fusion), but ice has a thermal conductivity about 20x that of snow...so as long as air temperatures are lower than soil temperatures, the ice can allow heat to conduct out of the ground faster than a soil snow boundary would...in other words a little snow melt can be a good thing for creating frost depth beneath the snowpack. Thanks for the lesson. So you think the ground below was slowly freezing? I don't know...when I lived in the Muskokas of Ontario, there would be muddy, slushy mud underneath two feet of snow. No frozen ground whatsoever. Hmmm, interesting discussion. Thanks for the lesson. So you think the ground below was slowly freezing? I don't know...when I lived in the Muskokas of Ontario, there would be muddy, slushy mud underneath two feet of snow. No frozen ground whatsoever. Hmmm, interesting discussion. Thanks for the lesson. So you think the ground below was slowly freezing? I don't know...when I lived in the Muskokas of Ontario, there would be muddy, slushy mud underneath two feet of snow. No frozen ground whatsoever. Hmmm, interesting discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 So...looks like we could see 1.5" of rain tonight, then Im hoping a touch of snow tomorrow evening (will be close). This is ON TOP of 0.94" of rain imby Thursday night and at least 0.5" water from snowmelt. I dont think SE MI will be under "abnormally dry" on the drought monitor anymore The torch post-mortem at DTW was a high of 58F yesterday (missed the 1890 record of 66F) and 59F today (missed the 1890 record of 63F) so essentially this torch did nothing more than rid us of our entire snowpack (outside of some DIRTY plow piles) and probably acted as a breeding ground for the already-rampant flu bug going around. Hope all enjoyed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 66 degrees here at 6:30 am in the dead of winter. That's +44 than what is typical at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TugHillMatt Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 66 degrees here at 6:30 am in the dead of winter. That's +44 than what is typical at that time. Wow. Is that a new record? Local meteorologist had a picture up on his blog of a dandelion growing yesterday in his yard. Winter no longer exists. It is called Spautumn and it lasts from November 1 to April 1. 3 out of the past 4 winters we have had plants growing throughout the winter that should be in their dormant stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daddylonglegs Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 12F here... 3F over near Rochester.. Running last night was brutal with a very strong NW wind... Face felt like it was going to freeze off. MTurtle- Snow looks similar to here, except my piles are smaller, but i had a lot less snow. Pretty impressive melt off for Madison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclone77 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Sitting at 15 right now. Definitely a change from 36hrs ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclone77 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Interesting little tidbit from DVN this morning. .UPDATE...12Z KDVN SOUNDING REVEALED A SCREAMING UPPER LEVEL JET AT 250 MBOF 175 KNOTS! THE MODELS WERE FORECASTING THE WIND AT THAT LEVELTO BE ONLY 135 KNOTS. Gotta love 200mph winds screaming 30000ft above you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowstormcanuck Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Futility chances still alive and well here in Toronto. 16.4" is the mark at YYZ set last winter. Looks like we might only add 1-2" the rest of this month. Get an early spring like 2008-09 and who knows? Back to back futility marks. What a great time to be a winter weather lover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Had another 0.8" of rain overnight. Just sickening to see all the snow gone but hey the general public must be thrilled (and now we welcome in - The flu!!!). More rain and hopefully snow on the way tonight. Not much else to say except the snowfall from Dec 21-29 and the rainfall from Jan 11-13 certainly should wipe "abnormally dry" right off the drought monitor for SE MI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowMeHunter Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 lots of qpf wasted to rain so far.. where was this rain when we needed it most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 lots of qpf wasted to rain so far.. where was this rain when we needed it most. Yup the grass was like straw most of the summer. Mby liquid precip totals for all events since Dec 20th: Dec 20/21..0.79" (1.1" snow) Dec 24.......0.07" (0.9" snow) Dec 26/27..0.44" (6.3" snow) Dec 28...........T (0.1" snow) Dec 29.......0.20" (2.7" snow) Dec 30...........T (0.3" snow) Jan 5/6.......0.03" (0.6" snow) Jan 10/11...0.94" Jan 12/13...0.82" + whatever this afternoon Dec 20-8am Jan 13: 3.29" (12.0" snow) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowMeHunter Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 quick recovery in John Dee land.. The man is living the midwest snow weenies dream.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geos Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 quick recovery in John Dee land.. The man is living the midwest snow weenies dream.. Nice! Down to 21° here with a few tiny flurries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TugHillMatt Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Nice! Down to 21° here with a few tiny flurries. Nice! Maybe we can both get a trace of snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geos Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Nice! Maybe we can both get a trace of snow. There is some snow developing in my area now. Got some medium sized flakes coming down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWXwx Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Over an inch and a half in my CoCoRaHs gauge since 8 PM last night. RECORD EVENT REPORT NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NORTHERN INDIANA 430 PM EST SUN JAN 13 2013 ...RECORD DAILY MAXIMUM RAINFALL SET AT FORT WAYNE... AS OF 4 PM EST...A RECORD DAILY RAINFALL OF 0.99 INCHES WAS SET AT FORT WAYNE. THIS BREAKS THE OLD RECORD OF 0.97 INCHES SET IN 1937. MORE PRECIPITATION IS EXPECTED THIS EVENING...AND THIS STATEMENT WILL BE UPDATED AS NEEDED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartyOn Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 DTW currently standing @ +5 for temps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daddylonglegs Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Flurries here like all day...some squall came through too...just enough to lightly cover the ground. Cold tonite...showing 3F 13F for a high today...brrrrr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 We're about +3.5 for the month through today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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