The Interior/NW Suburbs Winter Thread

[snywx]

The difference just in Rockland is pretty incredible at times too. As a kid it always seemed the Spring Valley toll on the thruway was where the rain/snow line set up. From sparkill and piermont up through haverstraw and into the higher terrain of stony point has a huge difference too, especially for such a small county. Being on the border of so many events, my 500' has been huge lol.

Yeah I agree. I used to live in West Haverstraw and noticed it first hand. The Hudson also has a big influence in Rockland. You can be on 9w with a mix or snain then take a 5 min drive up to Pomona and you will have accumulating snow.

[snywx]

in sussex boro, sussex county. i can see lake wallkill and high point tower from my deck. elevation goes from 900' at the top of my driveway to 700' at the back of my property.

 

I can see High Point Monument from my development. Some homes in my development are 1000-1050 ft.

[BxEngine]

Yeah I agree. I used to live in West Haverstraw and noticed it first hand. The Hudson also has a big influence in Rockland. You can be on 9w with a mix or snain then take a 5 min drive up to Pomona and you will have accumulating snow.

Yup...I live on the ridge between Valley Cottage and Nyack near part of the palisades cliffs...pretty decent high point here. winters like this is when i really notice the difference.

[snywx]

50-55" sounds about right for highest spots in Harriman. Highest peak is Black Rock Mt. at 1280'. The average where I am on Wawayanda Mt in Vernon, Nj is 55", with isolated spots over 1400' averaging 55-60".

 

Some of the Hudson Highland summits in Orange County like Schunemunk Mt (1664') and Storm King Mt (1340') avg around 60".. I my self avg 53-55"

[snywx]

I would think some parts average even more than 50" because I average around 38" per year in Dobbs Ferry at 350' elevation. Up above 1000' they probably get 55-60" since it's north and higher than here.

 

I find your 38" a little on the high side.. Especially considering your minimal elevation and you are right along the Hudson. Most of Rockland is in the 35-40" range. Even parts of Orange County right along the Hudson only avg 40".. What is the avg for HPN ?

[sussexcountyobs]

in sussex boro, sussex county. i can see lake wallkill and high point tower from my deck. elevation goes from 900' at the top of my driveway to 700' at the back of my property.

Ivenever seen an avg snowfall map for Sussex boro, but Im sure they exist somewhere? Id say 45" by you is a good estimate.

[sussexcountyobs]

Some of the Hudson Highland summits in Orange County like Schunemunk Mt (1664') and Storm King Mt (1340') avg around 60".. I my self avg 53-55"

Not familiar with that area, but with those elevations Im sure they do.

[sn0w]

Where is the best place to find average snowfall data?

 

I live in Putnam County (Mahopac) at around 700'...I would think we average around 45" but I am not sure.  I tried googling it but really didn't get much.

[famartin]

This map shows the gradient, but it has no key...

 

http://www.climatesource.com/us/fact_sheets/snow_us.gif

[sn0w]

This map shows the gradient, but it has no key...

 

http://www.climatesource.com/us/fact_sheets/snow_us.gif

Cool...thanks.  Look's like I'm right near the border in SE NY where the the first shade of blue meets with the next darker shade of blue.

[snywx]

This map shows the gradient, but it has no key...

 

http://www.climatesource.com/us/fact_sheets/snow_us.gif

 

That map shows HFD & BOS averaging more then these parts lol.. Def not accurate.

 

Isn't their long time averages somewhere around 40-43" ?

[nzucker]

I find your 38" a little on the high side.. Especially considering your minimal elevation and you are right along the Hudson. Most of Rockland is in the 35-40" range. Even parts of Orange County right along the Hudson only avg 40".. What is the avg for HPN ?

There is a co-op in Dobbs Ferry that has been active since 1946 (see Utah State Climate site), and they average 36" downtown. I am adding 1-2" because I am in a much more wooded area with 150-200' more elevation. I have been tracking snowfall at my house since 00-01, and I've gotten about 41.1"/year in that stretch....best seasons were 69.5" in 10-11 and 68" in 09-10. I am not right along the Hudson but in the hills towards the center part of Westchester County. 

 

HPN doesn't measure snowfall. I am pretty sure 38" is very accurate. I think you like to imagine NW areas as snowier than Westchester, but the reality is it's pretty close especially with all the coastals in recent years. You can check the co-op for confirmation. 

[snywx]

There is a co-op in Dobbs Ferry that has been active since 1946 (see Utah State Climate site), and they average 36" downtown. I am adding 1-2" because I am in a much more wooded area with 150-200' more elevation. I have been tracking snowfall at my house since 00-01, and I've gotten about 41.1"/year in that stretch....best seasons were 69.5" in 10-11 and 68" in 09-10. I am not right along the Hudson but in the hills towards the center part of Westchester County. 

 

HPN doesn't measure snowfall. I am pretty sure 38" is very accurate. I think you like to imagine NW areas as snowier than Westchester, but the reality is it's pretty close especially with all the coastals in recent years. You can check the co-op for confirmation. 

 

If I were to use that same 12 yr span I would come up with close to 70". Not even close to my long term norm. 

 

I would of thought you were closer to 32-34"

[famartin]

If I were to use that same 12 yr span I would come up with close to 70". Not even close to my long term norm. 

 

I would of thought you were closer to 32-34"

 

Central Park average during same period is 31.3"

[snywx]

Central Park average during same period is 31.3"

 

Yeah the last decade was def a snowier one for everyone. Probably will skew the mean by a noticeable amount.

[Animal]

50-55" sounds about right for highest spots in Harriman. Highest peak is Black Rock Mt. at 1280'.The average where I am on Wawayanda Mt in Vernon, Nj is 55", with isolated spots over 1400' averaging 55-60".

I have the snow weenie luck to be living at the top of the ridge line over 1400 feet. Not sure how much the higher elvation holds true for a big uptick in snow. Need cold air first & a storm. I just can't picture my elevation holding the same stick living up in VT at 3000 ft etc. Ths is my first winter in Highland Lakes. Although numerous people tell me HighLakes in ground zero for storms typically compared to the Vernon, Franklin, Sussex Valley areas.

According to the friendly person down the street.

Avg snow fall on the block - 60 inches

bad year - 40 or less

epic season - 100 or more

I have noticed on my travels that the decent snow line on rt 23 tends to start around Newfoundland coming from Butler Rt 287.

[sussexcountyobs]

I have the snow weenie luck to be living at the top of the ridge line over 1400 feet. Not sure how much the higher elvation holds true for a big uptick in snow. Need cold air first & a storm. I just can't picture my elevation holding the same stick living up in VT at 3000 ft etc. Ths is my first winter in Highland Lakes. Although numerous people tell me HighLakes in ground zero for storms typically compared to the Vernon, Franklin, Sussex Valley areas.

According to the friendly person down the street.

Avg snow fall on the block - 60 inches

bad year - 40 or less

epic season - 100 or more

I have noticed on my travels that the decent snow line on rt 23 tends to start around Newfoundland coming from Butler Rt 287.

Welcome to the mountain. And yes we are ground zero for snow in NJ. From Barry Lakes to Cliffwood Lake.That snow line u mention in Newfoundland is true, but you really enter a different world once you go under the tressle at Canistear Rd.

[Guest Patrick]

the micro climates up here are insane...i am a ten minute drive from quick chek on Glenwood. i had two inches more accum during the last storm than that area of rt 23.

I have the snow weenie luck to be living at the top of the ridge line over 1400 feet. Not sure how much the higher elvation holds true for a big uptick in snow. Need cold air first & a storm. I just can't picture my elevation holding the same stick living up in VT at 3000 ft etc. Ths is my first winter in Highland Lakes. Although numerous people tell me HighLakes in ground zero for storms typically compared to the Vernon, Franklin, Sussex Valley areas.

According to the friendly person down the street.

Avg snow fall on the block - 60 inches

bad year - 40 or less

epic season - 100 or more

I have noticed on my travels that the decent snow line on rt 23 tends to start around Newfoundland coming from Butler Rt 287.

[rgwp96]

I have the snow weenie luck to be living at the top of the ridge line over 1400 feet. Not sure how much the higher elvation holds true for a big uptick in snow. Need cold air first & a storm. I just can't picture my elevation holding the same stick living up in VT at 3000 ft etc. Ths is my first winter in Highland Lakes. Although numerous people tell me HighLakes in ground zero for storms typically compared to the Vernon, Franklin, Sussex Valley areas.

According to the friendly person down the street.

Avg snow fall on the block - 60 inches

bad year - 40 or less

epic season - 100 or more

I have noticed on my travels that the decent snow line on rt 23 tends to start around Newfoundland coming from Butler Rt 287.

last year even that area didnt crack 30 and that was including 15 +  in the october storm..  Like i said i live in butler and thankfully this year i have had snow (20.6 for the year) seems like the cutoff has been a little further south around wayne / pequanock. 

[sussexcountyobs]

last year even that area didnt crack 30 and that was including 15 +  in the october storm..  Like i said i live in butler and thankfully this year i have had snow (20.6 for the year) seems like the cutoff has been a little further south around wayne / pequanock. 

Thats true. Last year I think I topped out at 28". But two years prior I think it was, I was over 90". ,Last year was just plain sad!

[rgwp96]

Thats true. Last year I think I topped out at 28". But two years prior I think it was, I was over 90". ,Last year was just plain sad!

As for dark star . Don't know what he's saying by snow line being all the way up 23 when I have had snow every storm he had this year

[Irishmick9]

I grew up in Vernon and recently moved back...numerous times I have seen it raining at the bottom of 515 by the A&P plaza and snowing at the top. I am in the valley an usually Highland Lakes is at least an inch or two higher than us.

[sussexcountyobs]

As for dark star . Don't know what he's saying by snow line being all the way up 23 when I have had snow every storm he had this year

You have. Idrive through Butler everyday.I think I know what he means. You notice a big diff in temps and snow sticking to 23, after you get through the ess turns and past echo lake rd.

[sussexcountyobs]

I grew up in Vernon and recently moved back...numerous times I have seen it raining at the bottom of 515 by the A&P plaza and snowing at the top. I am in the valley an usually Highland Lakes is at least an inch or two higher than us.

Yup. Ive seen it pouring at rt 23 and Canistear rd, and 2 or 3 miles up Canistear a foot of snow

[rgwp96]

You have. Idrive through Butler everyday.I think I know what he means. You notice a big diff in temps and snow sticking to 23, after you get through the ess turns and past echo lake rd.

that's the problem. 23 in butler is all built up ,Hardly any grass all parkin lots . Certainly doesn't represent the surrounding neighborhoods . Take any road of 23 and U Will see.  Also butler is morris county and morris county dpw handles 23 for snow  pours some liquid crap on the roads before every storm. have no clue what it is but works great.   once u hit west milford pass kinnelon s turn u are into passaic county. . im not saying butler gets as much as highland does because elevation can certainly make a difference(1400 vs 550) but this year the snow line has been around wayne area of rt 80

[NorthNJwx]

My annual average in Oakland is probably not far from 40", and I'm only at 280' elevation. There's a good ridge to the east of Oakland, running through Mahwah, Franklin Lakes, Wyckoff, Wayne, and southward (it's part of the Watchung Ridge) that reaches over 700' in spots and seems to be another classic dividing line during snow events. East of that ridge in Bergen County, the difference is often noticeable - especially during winters like this one. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the higher elevations of the Ramapo Mountains (over 800') in Oakland, Wanaque, Mahwah, and Ringwood average at or over 45", and the highest spots (1000-1150') might be closer to 50". The elevation definitely makes a difference, though I still do much better at 280' than most areas east of the aforementioned ridge do at similar elevations. 

 

West Milford doesn't average much less than Highland Lakes, and I bet much of it is in the 55" range. Harriman is probably similar. I've heard it mentioned somewhere that High Point (1803' in the N corner of NJ) averages 65", and it's far enough inland to get less than areas further east during some coastals. 

[Animal]

As for dark star . Don't know what he's saying by snow line being all the way up 23 when I have had snow every storm he had this year

 

 

that's the problem. 23 in butler is all built up ,Hardly any grass all parkin lots . Certainly doesn't represent the surrounding neighborhoods . Take any road of 23 and U Will see.  Also butler is morris county and morris county dpw handles 23 for snow  pours some liquid crap on the roads before every storm. have no clue what it is but works great.   once u hit west milford pass kinnelon s turn u are into passaic county. . im not saying butler gets as much as highland does because elevation can certainly make a difference(1400 vs 550) but this year the snow line has been around wayne area of rt 80

Hello RGWPG,

 

Let me clarify my post. I don't imply Butler is not in the NW burbs snow zone. In fact I agree that Buter typically does very well for storms.

Your points about the area on Rt 23 is built up hold merit. I have yet to venture off of rt 23. I have been at the Lowes numerous times, I see what looks to be the town of Butler down the hill from Lowes. The Lowes parking lot does provide  a nice view of the hills out to the north and west too.

But to my point, I was away for Chirstmas and came back that Wednesday. I saw no snow on the ground until I was futher west on Rt 23.

When I got home I was a little surprised that Highland Lakes had the most snow on the trip.  I think I may have posted a photo or 2 on this board.

I did not venture of any roads either.

 

Cheers,

 

Darkstar

[Animal]

My annual average in Oakland is probably not far from 40", and I'm only at 280' elevation. There's a good ridge to the east of Oakland, running through Mahwah, Franklin Lakes, Wyckoff, Wayne, and southward (it's part of the Watchung Ridge) that reaches over 700' in spots and seems to be another classic dividing line during snow events. East of that ridge in Bergen County, the difference is often noticeable - especially during winters like this one. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the higher elevations of the Ramapo Mountains (over 800') in Oakland, Wanaque, Mahwah, and Ringwood average at or over 45", and the highest spots (1000-1150') might be closer to 50". The elevation definitely makes a difference, though I still do much better at 280' than most areas east of the aforementioned ridge do at similar elevations. 

 

West Milford doesn't average much less than Highland Lakes, and I bet much of it is in the 55" range. Harriman is probably similar. I've heard it mentioned somewhere that High Point (1803' in the N corner of NJ) averages 65", and it's far enough inland to get less than areas further east during some coastals. 

Not sure if there are any records for highpoint. The only point that I can make is that the eastern end of Sussex County can get more snow than the NW&  W part of the county with the right storm track on a coastal low. This could iply that the ridge line from Sparta through Greenwood Lakes may get the same amount of average snowfall as the ridge line out in the western past of the county,

Someone who has lived in the area much longer can most likely confirm or deny snowfall for both ridges.

Having lived in Edison, NJ the past 3 years, I am hoping that this area does well for thunderstorms too.

Edison did not do well due to the close distance to the ocean/bay for storms in my view.

[sussexcountyobs]

that's the problem. 23 in butler is all built up ,Hardly any grass all parkin lots . Certainly doesn't represent the surrounding neighborhoods . Take any road of 23 and U Will see.  Also butler is morris county and morris county dpw handles 23 for snow  pours some liquid crap on the roads before every storm. have no clue what it is but works great.   once u hit west milford pass kinnelon s turn u are into passaic county. . im not saying butler gets as much as highland does because elevation can certainly make a difference(1400 vs 550) but this year the snow line has been around wayne area of rt 80

Of course the highway, just from the heat of all the traffic can hinder acc. That liquid line stuff they spray is a brine. Basically, pickle juice. Lol!!

[nzucker]

My annual average in Oakland is probably not far from 40", and I'm only at 280' elevation. There's a good ridge to the east of Oakland, running through Mahwah, Franklin Lakes, Wyckoff, Wayne, and southward (it's part of the Watchung Ridge) that reaches over 700' in spots and seems to be another classic dividing line during snow events. East of that ridge in Bergen County, the difference is often noticeable - especially during winters like this one. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the higher elevations of the Ramapo Mountains (over 800') in Oakland, Wanaque, Mahwah, and Ringwood average at or over 45", and the highest spots (1000-1150') might be closer to 50". The elevation definitely makes a difference, though I still do much better at 280' than most areas east of the aforementioned ridge do at similar elevations. 

 

West Milford doesn't average much less than Highland Lakes, and I bet much of it is in the 55" range. Harriman is probably similar. I've heard it mentioned somewhere that High Point (1803' in the N corner of NJ) averages 65", and it's far enough inland to get less than areas further east during some coastals. 

 

 

My annual average in Oakland is probably not far from 40", and I'm only at 280' elevation. There's a good ridge to the east of Oakland, running through Mahwah, Franklin Lakes, Wyckoff, Wayne, and southward (it's part of the Watchung Ridge) that reaches over 700' in spots and seems to be another classic dividing line during snow events. East of that ridge in Bergen County, the difference is often noticeable - especially during winters like this one. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the higher elevations of the Ramapo Mountains (over 800') in Oakland, Wanaque, Mahwah, and Ringwood average at or over 45", and the highest spots (1000-1150') might be closer to 50". The elevation definitely makes a difference, though I still do much better at 280' than most areas east of the aforementioned ridge do at similar elevations. 

 

West Milford doesn't average much less than Highland Lakes, and I bet much of it is in the 55" range. Harriman is probably similar. I've heard it mentioned somewhere that High Point (1803' in the N corner of NJ) averages 65", and it's far enough inland to get less than areas further east during some coastals. 

This justifies my average of 37-38" here in Dobbs Ferry. Oakland and Dobbs Ferry are at exactly the same latitude. You are a bit further from the coast, but I am almost 100' higher, so that averages out...My house specifically is around 340', but the woods behind it in the Jurhing Estate peak at 425' on most contoured maps I've seen. 

 

A lot of people think that Westchester is not snowy because they think of urban areas like Yonkers, or worse Mount Vernon and Mamaroneck right along the LI Sound. The interior wooded areas of the County with elevation are very different. It's even more dramatic when you go up the Saw Mill...the higher hills around Katonah definitely average 40-45" per year.