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12/29 - New Years Storm Threat Discussion


Dsnowx53

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Whoever is comparing it to the Boxing Day event, obviously is an idiot... There are comparisons, but that ain't it... I think we're setting up for a moderate event... 3-6".. That would be a safe bet now... Will it trend to a bigger event, possible.. Lets wait and see if the Euro is as bullish as last night...

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Can we stop the comparisons to Boxing Day please. Completley different setup.

On Boxing Day you had a huge ridge out west centered over Eastern Wyoming and North Dakota. You had a very deep long wave trough that extended all the way down into the gulf and cyclogenisis well SE of OBX.

With this event, the trough isn't nearly as sharp and doesn't dig nearly enough. Despite a ridge axis located near the same area, it barely extends to the Canadian Border even on the 00z ECMWF. On Boxing Day, the ridge axis extended well up into Northern Canada. That was a very rare setup.

Its a comparison in the sense that big east coast snows r missed by the gfs 3 and 4 days out. The gfs is as awful in 3 to 6 events as it is in 1 to 2 ft. Thats the comparison. Capice

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For whatever reason that trough axis flattens out on both the NAM and the GFS. The cause is beyond my level of understanding.

The phase doesn't happen in time on those. You can see that instead of the backside S/W slamming into the lead S/W, the backside wave lingers behind it until it's too late for us, and it results in the system shearing out and not developing a CCB until it's gone. There is also a progressive flow resulting from the trough over the West Coast and ridge over the Midwest, trying to push this out. We absolutely need the phase to happen in time or it's a minor to possibly moderate event in spots.

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As long as the models keep trending more favorably then I'm fine with the Nam and Gfs, If the Euro holds or trends even more favorably, then I think it's game on. Shades of boxing day are there when it comes to getting the phasing in on time or the storm goes OTS, though even in that case we'll still get a minor snowfall instead of a complete miss.

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Its a comparison in the sense that big east coast snows r missed by the gfs 3 and 4 days out. The gfs is as awful in 3 to 6 events as it is in 1 to 2 ft. Thats the comparison. Capice

With Boxing Day the models first sniffed it out around 10 days in advance. First as a "Bowling Ball" type trough that swung through and gave us some good WWA snows on the north side. Then of course as time went on, it was lost altogether until it made a stunning comeback in the bottom of the ninth with no runners on and two outs. The rest is history.

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The phase doesn't happen in time on those. You can see that instead of the backside S/W slamming into the lead S/W, the backside wave lingers behind it until it's too late for us, and it results in the system shearing out and not developing a CCB until it's gone. There is also a progressive flow resulting from the trough over the West Coast and ridge over the Midwest, trying to push this out. We absolutely need the phase to happen in time or it's a minor to possibly moderate event in spots.

To get something really big of the Miller A variety we need that trough axis to come in much sharper on future runs and dig down into the Gulf States. Then we might be able to get that phase over the SE. I disagree about the trough on the west coast pushing the pattern. We need some decent blocking, that ridge axis over the western plains is amplified enough to get the job done.

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This is one of those storms where the coastal low formation can screw us...we may almost be better off getting the snow with upper trough vort because the coastal low formation as you can tell on most models suddenly "steals" the snow from the upper trough.

This. Especially for those in the NW part of forecasting area.

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Whoever is comparing it to the Boxing Day event, obviously is an idiot... There are comparisons, but that ain't it... I think we're setting up for a moderate event... 3-6".. That would be a safe bet now... Will it trend to a bigger event, possible.. Lets wait and see if the Euro is as bullish as last night...

A. Watch ur mouth. B. the comparison is that the GFS is even missing ths 3 to 6 event. Feel me

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The comparison to all past storms is the GFS misses them all in ths case it's missing a 3 to 6 event 3 days out. The error is simple. The GFS run the energy off the playing field to fast. It's an error in the model when prog going systems on the east coast. The euro holds the energy back that's y u get a closer solution. The reason u dont get a bomb is because there's a trof crashing into the west coast and it flattens the trof in the east just enough so it doesn't really go neg tilted for us. So to those who don't understand the comparison it's purely on why I trust the euro 3 days out and not the GFS

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