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December 27/28 Storm Threat


Baroclinic Zone

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Seems odd to see this much confidence in a forecast as far as probabilities/percentages this far out...

Wednesday: Snow likely, mainly after 4pm. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 31. Chance of precipitation is 60%.

Wednesday Night: Rain, snow, and sleet before 3am, then rain and sleet between 3am and 5am, then freezing rain and sleet after 5am. Low around 27. Chance of precipitation is 90%.

Thursday: Rain, freezing rain, and sleet. High near 37. Chance of precipitation is 80%.

Thursday Night: Rain and snow showers likely. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 24. Chance of precipitation is 70%.

Nah. It's gonna do SOMETHING. Just don't necessarily know exactly what yet lol. But I think we can go high on precip probs at least

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For the sake of the board, I'm going to put Kevin on ignore and likewise I hope he does the same. that will probably cut my posting down 50% as I won't feel the need to counterbalance what's being said.

I also get what the guy from Attleboro was saying the other day, will try to consolidate thoughts. And for the record, if anyone is ever thinking I'm being condescending...just message me that's never, ever my intention.

Have a good evening, you too Kevin.

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Personally I think the chances of you getting anything other than snow is between slim and nil. :)

I'd agree with that for both of these first two, and probably the 30th/1 storm too.

I don't think folks are realizing that the trend this season has been for further NW tracking lows as we approach T minus 0. This is the concern this year, not these things going out to sea to the SE.

Ugly. Rain/mix well up into upstate NY and NNE. Primary between BGM and MSV by 12z Thursday.

Yep over ne pa this run. Bad run for cny

Yeah and we still have over 3 days of model runs left. Could still be a Chicago snowstorm easily, lol.

Unless we really see a pattern shift, I see no reason to deviate from what has been the pattern so far of models trending NW. Probably want one of these to start out near Bermuda at 7 days out :lol:

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BTV is sort of honking, lol. Executive summary in bold.

.LONG TERM /WEDNESDAY THROUGH SATURDAY/...

AS OF 315 PM EST SUNDAY...MODELS CONTINUE TO VARY A BIT FOR THE

MIDWEEK SYSTEM TO IMPACT THE NORTH COUNTRY. LOW PRESSURE SYSTEM

MOVES NORTHEASTWARD IN THE OHIO RIVER VALLEY ON WEDNESDAY AND

WILL BE CENTERED JUST SOUTHWEST OF PENNSYLVANIA BY 00Z THURSDAY.

MODELS STILL INDICATING THAT A SECONDARY LOW WILL FORM AND THEN

BECOME THE PRIMARY LOW TRACKING JUST INSIDE THE NEW ENGLAND

COAST. THE LOW WILL BE RIGHT NEAR NYC BY 12Z THURSDAY...AND

PORTLAND MAINE BY 00Z FRIDAY. A TRACK JUST OFF THE COAST IS A

MORE IDEAL TRACK FOR A NICE SNOWSTORM FOR VERMONT AND NORTHERN

NEW YORK...THOUGH STILL EXPECT MOSTLY SNOW WITH THIS STORM. THERE

WILL BE SOME WARM AIR IN THE MID LEVELS...AND PROBABLY JUST

ENOUGH FOR A BIT OF SLEET TO MIX IN AND HAVE INDICATED THIS IN

THE GRIDS. HAVE MENTIONED LIKELY POPS FOR WEDNESDAY NIGHT AND

THURSDAY ACROSS THE NORTH COUNTRY...WITH SOME CATEGORICAL POPS

ACROSS OUR MOST SOUTHERN ZONES. LARGE SCALE SYSTEM WILL HAVE

WRAPAROUND PRECIPITATION CONTINUE INTO FRIDAY...ESPECIALLY ACROSS

THE HIGHER ELEVATIONS AND NORTHWEST FACING SLOPES OF VERMONT AND

NORTHERN NEW YORK. THOUGH THERE IS STILL SOME UNCERTAINTY...RIGHT

NOW LOOKS LIKE STORM TOTAL QPF WILL RANGE FROM AROUND THREE

QUARTERS OF AN INCH TO ABOUT AN INCH AND A HALF OF LIQUID

EQUIVALENT. THIS COULD BE OUR FIRST BIG SNOWSTORM IN A

WHILE...WITH STORM TOTALS OVER A FOOT IN SOME LOCATIONS. WILL

HAVE TO CONTINUE TO MONITOR NEW MODEL DATA AS IT BECOMES

AVAILABLE AND WE GET CLOSER TO WEDNESDAY NIGHT AND THURSDAY.

MODELS ARE ALSO SHOWING POSSIBILITY FOR ANOTHER LOW TRACKING NEAR

THE COAST FOR THE SATURDAY THROUGH SUNDAY TIMEFRAME.

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I don't think folks are realizing that the trend this season has been for further NW tracking lows as we approach T minus 0. This is the concern this year, not these things going out to sea to the SE.

Yeah and we still have over 3 days of model runs left. Could still be a Chicago snowstorm easily, lol.

Unless we really see a pattern shift, I see no reason to deviate from what has been the pattern so far of models trending NW. Probably want one of these to start out near Bermuda at 7 days out :lol:

I agree but I think you're fine on this next big one. Even if you get hit pretty good and then a bit of a mess it's a large net gain for you. I worry more about NH ski areas...Maine seems to be doing okay as they are far enough NE. we'll see how it plays out tonight. First impulses are cleared the rockies so we should get a clear shot on the 0z for storm 1 tonight. That'll hopefully result in a clearer picture for storm 2 which is why I'm not loving the shift left today.
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I don't think folks are realizing that the trend this season has been for further NW tracking lows as we approach T minus 0. This is the concern this year, not these things going out to sea to the SE.

Yeah and we still have over 3 days of model runs left. Could still be a Chicago snowstorm easily, lol.

Unless we really see a pattern shift, I see no reason to deviate from what has been the pattern so far of models trending NW. Probably want one of these to start out near Bermuda at 7 days out :lol:

Well to be sure they typically trend NW and then the last 36 hours seem to trend back east..Will has noted this several times. hopefully this happens and everyone can cash in.

Why you're worried up there is beyond me.

Merry Christmas

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Well to be sure they typically trend NW and then the last 36 hours seem to trend back east..Will has noted this several times. hopefully this happens and everyone can cash in.

Why you're worried up there is beyond me.

Merry Christmas

Because he is probably trying not to piss anyone off again...............lol

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Well to be sure they typically trend NW and then the last 36 hours seem to trend back east..Will has noted this several times. hopefully this happens and everyone can cash in.

Why you're worried up there is beyond me.

Merry Christmas

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you too...

and lol, I'm not trying to piss anyone off. I just have a difference approach to the weather than some on here. I look for things that can go wrong... it keeps reality grounded, and the "best case" scenario is a snowstorm. That is always the best case scenario. So you know it can't get "better" than that. So instead of focusing on the best possible outcome, I look for what can go wrong. It really helps in forecasting for the ski area, too. Honestly the worst thing you can do is call for a pure, heavy snowstorm, and get it wrong (ie have it rain or something). It has implications for snowmaking right now (if it will not snow we will make snow on trail X, if it will rain we need to make snow on trail Y, and if its going to snow a lot then we'll skip trail X and go to Z), future grooming operations/scheduling, etc.

I do like to weenie out with everyone else, but I know Ryan/Coastal/Will and the pro mets know this well, the best approach to actually forecasting for real life is a cautious build-up to time minus zero.

You don't go full-bore heavy snowstorm 4+ days out with the changes we have been seeing on the models over the past several weeks. Things that look like slam dunks, aren't. And no matter how much I want it to snow, that can't drive your forecasting in anyway whatsoever... that's "wishcasting." :lol:

We can always find ways for it to snow in our own snow-crazed heads... but reality is often a different beast. You have to be open and discussing of all possibilities. And in this situation I still think there's at least a 30% chance of mixing up here or like Danstorm mentioned, the ol' 33F drizzle/mist/dryslot changing back to wet snow showers. To most on here, getting 6-8" of snow followed by some 33F mist is a good deal, but if it crusts the snow surface that's an issue for skiing with grooming implications. I'm not sure if some folks know how much thought goes into weather and ski area operations, but every little nuance is analyzed and I bet it would shock you about how long we look/talk about this stuff.

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Nobody lately, Everybody seems to be walking around on eggshells lately getting called out for spiking balls

Haha its not that... I'm really not one to spike balls on synoptic events. Now upslope is a different matter, lol. Like this past upslope event yesterday/last night, you can see them coming from a mile away. The mountains are always there so you don't need to track lift and where it will come from. You just need some wind to jam moisture into the mountains. We called that one with confidence last Wednesday. I feel much, much more unsure about synoptic events on the whole.

Like this upcoming storm... I'm really not sure how the front side will play out, but I guarantee you if that surface low & mid level lows get over towards Maine (whether it gets there by tracking through SYR or BOS), it will upslope on the backside, lol.

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Haha its not that... I'm really not one to spike balls on synoptic events. Now upslope is a different matter, lol. Like this past upslope event yesterday/last night, you can see them coming from a mile away. The mountains are always there so you don't need to track lift and where it will come from. You just need some wind to jam moisture into the mountains. We called that one with confidence last Wednesday. I feel much, much more unsure about synoptic events on the whole.

Like this upcoming storm... I'm really not sure how the front side will play out, but I guarantee you if that surface low & mid level lows get over towards Maine (whether it gets there by tracking through SYR or BOS), it will upslope on the backside, lol.

The spiking was not directed at you, But many have been called out for it as there are a number of posters that read more into some post then they should and that's where i will end it, You are in a good spot no matter what the outcome is really

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I agree with this basic idea and shake my head sometimes when people look at a graphical chart and argue that a particular model solution cannot happen.

But I also agree with Will that the models in general, and the GFS in particular can underestimate surface temps in CAD situations by several degrees. The tiebreaker here is that what the GFS is depicting is nowhere close to marginal. That is a horrible SLP track for all of SNE. Maybe in the worst worse case a few sheltered valleys could hold onto 32 and freezing rain. But I see no mechanism to prevent the warmth from surging in. I think the only way to stay frozen in that setup would be to go above the warm layers in the highest peaks of the Whites.

But you contradicted yourself - in one sentence, you say you shake your head when people argue from basis of graphical charts; but then you say your tie break is depiction based on a graphic chart.

There is more too to the graphical interpretation than the mere scalar observation of it. There's history/wisdom, combined with Met knowledge involved.

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you know what i mean though. I'm not talking about biases, really. Just that if a model shows something I'm not going to wave my hands and say well no, this is really what would happen with that 500mb trough/surface low track.

It wasn't that simple at the time ...well, still too. If you think the mention was motivated out of just waving hands and saying no - that's bs dude.

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IMO, there's still a ways to go on this storm. In the past few model runs, we've seen increased intensification with the primary which almost allows the low to get closed off by the time it makes it to the eastern seaboard. This type of setup would make the system more of a latitudinal event that could keep us in the game for wintry precip - at least to some extent.

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