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December 27/28 Storm Threat


Baroclinic Zone

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If the forecast models could react with human emotions, I'd say the 12z GFS is analogous to an over-reaction of the downstream ridging to some new-found freedom ... however it forgot all about the more amplified Christmas shortwave which would add confluence northeast of the next trough.

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Will, I think I found BUF's biggest synoptic storm. It was February 1958. Tremendous amount of lake-enhancement from Lake Ontario with frigid temperatures. High was 3, low was -3F and we pilled up 29" over a few days.

It wasn;'t the Feb 14-17, 1958 storm, was it? I know that one gave ROC a lot of enahncement on a NE flow

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If the forecast models could react with human emotions, I'd say the 12z GFS is analogous to an over-reaction of the downstream ridging to some new-found freedom ... however it forgot all about the more amplified Christmas shortwave which would add confluence northeast of the next trough.

Your description was perfect. The shortwave resides near Nova Scotia and says hello north tug.

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It wasn;'t the Feb 14-17, 1958 storm, was it? I know that one gave ROC a lot of enahncement on a NE flow

yeah that's the one. 31" in ROC, 29" in BUF. Most have been mostly lake-effect, really. The track was favorable for an I-95 smash...not to give heavy snow way over here.

I like where I sit with this one.

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I'm pretty sure that was a very big storm in ENY also. I know there was one around then in 1958 that gave over three feet of snow in the Catskills. My Dad always talked about it.

yeah that's the one. 31" in ROC, 29" in BUF. Most have been mostly lake-effect, really. The track was favorable for an I-95 smash...not to give heavy snow way over here.

I like where I sit with this one.

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So I'm wondering how the mos snow numbers are derived. MEX has 2 at BOS for the 12/27 event presuming from the front end? Because the track as modeled would be tough to get that much since its rolling up so far west.

The MOS numbers aren't just taking the model verbatim...it takes certain parameters from the model and then weights it against climo and past similarity...MOS has a "memory". It tries to use the model run to give probabilities of certain events happening. So even though a verbatim model solution might give no snow...it can say usually when these certain paramters are present, we'll get snow. Likewise sometimes it predicts no snow when the model tries to spit out 6 inches.

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That would have been due to the lake enhancement I guess.That storm had fairly a sharp northern cut off around here. About a foot here, two feet down where I lived in Saugerties then, and only about five inches in GFL.

The LES bands have finally decided to start blessing me here now.

The sne blizzard of 78 gave roc 2 feet I think.

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The MOS numbers aren't just taking the model verbatim...it takes certain parameters from the model and then weights it against climo and past similarity...MOS has a "memory". It tries to use the model run to give probabilities of certain events happening. So even though a verbatim model solution might give no snow...it can say usually when these certain paramters are present, we'll get snow. Likewise sometimes it predicts no snow when the model tries to spit out 6 inches.

Thanks Will. I kind of thought that and for this reason I believe these numbers are good signals although I've seen them take huge dumps.

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That would have been due to the lake enhancement I guess.That storm had fairly a sharp northern cut off around here. About a foot here, two feet down where I lived in Saugerties then, and only about five inches in GFL.

The LES bands have finally decided to start blessing me here now.

what is this lake-effect you speak of?

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Thanks Will. I kind of thought that and for this reason I believe these numbers are good signals although I've seen them take huge dumps.

Yeah there are times when they really screw up...but often they can be a signal or a red flag. There's climo in MOS, so very anomalous events they usually wont perform well....esp the further out in the forecast time it is.

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