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December 26th - 27th Winter Storm


Powerball

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GEM forms a strong lead wave... 998mb in Central OH. Rain to heavy snow on X-mas eve along the I-80 corridor in Indiana/Ohio... second wave is a miss to the east. Though compared to it's 12z run it was significantly west.

....hard to imagine the euro missing the strength of a storm only 72 hrs out like that. Easy to imagine the ggem over amplifying a storm like that.

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maybe, but honestly if you have two teams, first has the euro and the gfs on it, and second has the uk, nogaps, ggem on it...

I'm choosing team 1 everytime.

fully aware of the blind squirrel thing

OK. But I have been doing this as a professional for 25 years, and I would put the UK on that first team, not the second. I think the UK is a substantially superior model to the NOGAPS or GGEM.

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....hard to imagine the euro missing the strength of a storm only 72 hrs out like that. Easy to imagine the ggem over amplifying a storm like that.

Agreed. The GGEM looks very squirrelly with overdeepening of that lead wave - but the GFS looks squirrelly with it for the opposing reason (although it has been trending stronger). Having said that, what the GGEM does with that lead wave could very well be affecting the later system.

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I doubt sampling will help much. Issue is further north and thus that block i posted about. THAT is what you need to hope that the models are wrong with. Nothing can come too far nw with that thing in the way.

+1

Need the block to shift or weaken a bit.

Think that energy to the west of Hudson Bay will trend southward in the next runs?

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GEM forms a strong lead wave... 998mb in Central OH. Rain to heavy snow on X-mas eve along the I-80 corridor in Indiana/Ohio... second wave is a miss to the east. Though compared to it's 12z run it was significantly west.

The UK only shows the lead wave at 1008 over WV. Therefore if a stronger frontrunner yields a further se track of the followup storm. then the UK should be west of the ggem OR the ggem should be east of the Uk. :wacko:

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I doubt sampling will help much. Issue is further north and thus that block i posted about. THAT is what you need to hope that the models are wrong with. Nothing can come too far nw with that thing in the way.

I still think us in the Detroit area are in the game, you not so much. BUT I would settle for a 00z GEM scenario...the southern 2 rows of counties in MI see heavy snow Christmas Eve afternoon and evening. My god the models are just everywhere with these different waves lol

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The UK only shows the lead wave at 1008 over WV. Therefore if a stronger frontrunner yields a further se track of the followup storm. then the UK should be west of the ggem OR the ggem should be east of the Uk. :wacko:

LOL, yeah, I thought about that too - so obviously what is going on with the second wave is obviously only partially driven by the first (which makes sense). As I said in an earlier post, this is a complex interaction and there will likely be changes - probably even in the EC.

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The UK only shows the lead wave at 1008 over WV. Therefore if a stronger frontrunner yields a further se track of the followup storm. then the UK should be west of the ggem OR the ggem should be east of the Uk. :wacko:

The fact that there's not even close to a clear consensus with the lead wave at 72-84hrs just shows how much of a headache that second wave will be. If the first one isn't set in stone at 72hrs out then this second wave is probably going to be an absolute b*tch too.

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I still think us in the Detroit area are in the game, you not so much. BUT I would settle for a 00z GEM scenario...the southern 2 rows of counties in MI see heavy snow Christmas Eve afternoon and evening. My god the models are just everywhere with these different waves lol

Agree with this. Extreme Southeastern Michigan is still well in the game at this point.

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The fact that there's not even close to a clear consensus with the lead wave at 72-84hrs just shows how much of a headache that second wave will be. If the first one isn't set in stone at 72hrs out then this second wave is probably going to be an absolute b*tch too.

good point

so, is the ggem a coastal then?

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If you compare to the 12z it's shifted several hundred miles west... so if you want to get technical its almost halfway there lol

Just looked pretty closely comparing the 12Z and 00Z, and the main difference is after Christmas Day, when the GGEM appears to have trended a bit toward the EC in having more northern stream energy phase into the system, resulting in a deeper somewhat farther west track. This difference is more noticeable aloft than at the surface - the surface low positions at 00Z Wed evening are only maybe 100-200 miles different, which to me is almost in the noise that far out.

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+1

Need the block to shift or weaken a bit.

Think that energy to the west of Hudson Bay will trend southward in the next runs?

Any shift needs to be north or west. Best option ofcourse is not being there period. Then as wxsmwhrms pointed out there is the issue of the lead wave/event.

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