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December 20-22 Winter Storm (Blizzard?) Potential


Hoosier

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I learned long ago never to dismiss either a last minute nw trend or last minute trend se towards suppression. Has happened even inside of 24hrs.. 1st half of 07-08 was well known for last minute nw trends while the 2nd half of 07-08 and more so 08-09 it went the other way towards the se.

Oh sure, I'm not that worried about suppression, though if the Euro and GEM means remain near the Ohio River for the next two days, then needless to say I would welcome a shift NW like Groundhog Day did in small increments.

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Precipitation. A range from all rain or all snow exists right now... not that that's helpful for you.

Well, as a snow lower I'll have to hope for the latter, especially with how things are here in NC. Anyways, not trying to take this thread off topic, but thanks for any info anyone has.

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I learned long ago never to dismiss either a last minute nw trend or last minute trend se towards suppression. Has happened even inside of 24hrs.. 1st half of 07-08 was well known for last minute nw trends while the 2nd half of 07-08 and more so 08-09 it went the other way towards the se.

This happened with the most recent storm in the upper midwest. Last minute trend south buried southern minnesota and duluth barely got anything. Shall be a fun next couple of days.

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You know whats funny....this will be our FIFTH winter since 2007-08. And most of the region did phenomenal to near-record breaking with snowfall that year. But the "NW trend" fears have lived on and will never die. And I admit I have them too. But think about it, ever since that you-can-bank-on-it NW trend 5 years ago, there never has been a predominate trend. Some NW, some SE, some others.

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You know whats funny....this will be our FIFTH winter since 2007-08. And most of the region did phenomenal to near-record breaking with snowfall that year. But the "NW trend" fears have lived on and will never die. And I admit I have them too. But think about it, ever since that you-can-bank-on-it NW trend 5 years ago, there never has been a predominate trend. Some NW, some SE, some others.

Very very true. As I type it blows up an area of. 1+ qpf on Tuesday over my roof.

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The northwest trend is all about a strong southern vort. If it does come in weaker, I could see globals keep a similiar track but weaken the low to match. The fact they are so amped up, is whats telling me of the more "Green Bay" hit. But it may end up a moderate event if weakened.

As has been mentioned a few times recently in this thread alot has to do with where it ejects into the Plains as well. Thus stronger does not always equal further nw and nor does weaker always equal further se. :)

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You know whats funny....this will be our FIFTH winter since 2007-08. And most of the region did phenomenal to near-record breaking with snowfall that year. But the "NW trend" fears have lived on and will never die. And I admit I have them too. But think about it, ever since that you-can-bank-on-it NW trend 5 years ago, there never has been a predominate trend. Some NW, some SE, some others.

If the Euro is right, you could get a hotel room in Lansing and experience the full brunt of this one. If the GFS is right, better move that plan to St. Ignace or SSM.

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The northwest trend is all about a strong southern vort. If it does come in weaker, I could see globals keep a similiar track but weaken the low to match. The fact they are so amped up, is whats telling me of the more "Green Bay" hit. But it may end up a moderate event if weakened.

I just feel like if it does end up tracking further SE, say from indy to sandusky or cleveland, that those in SE MI and NW OH still wouldn't see too much snow due do the fact that a transfer will occur the further this thing tracks SE. Don't usually see a transfer when it tracks over Detroit or just west.

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The northwest trend is all about a strong southern vort. If it does come in weaker, I could see globals keep a similiar track but weaken the low to match. The fact they are so amped up, is whats telling me of the more "Green Bay" hit. But it may end up a moderate event if weakened.

A stronger southern vort. would allow the system to dig further south and phase with the northern vort later on. There is really no model support at this point for a green bay hit. It could change once the system is sampled but I really dont buy a track that far north. A further south ejection is better for those of us further to the south and east.

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I just feel like if it does end up tracking further SE, say from indy to sandusky or cleveland, that those in SE MI and NW OH still wouldn't see too much snow due do the fact that a transfer will occur the further this thing tracks SE. Don't usually see a transfer when it tracks over Detroit or just west.

One thing I have noticed is that even on the farther south/east solutions, the models are not really showing a full blown transfer to the coast. It tries to get going but it's more of a double barrelled low at worst with the primary retaining a lot of strength.

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I just feel like if it does end up tracking further SE, say from indy to sandusky or cleveland, that those in SE MI and NW OH still wouldn't see too much snow due do the fact that a transfer will occur the further this thing tracks SE. Don't usually see a transfer when it tracks over Detroit or just west.

I still haven't seen any model show a full transfer to the coast, but rather over the Apps or Coastal Plain. Besides, the transfer occurs so late that it's still a fairly big event for those who will see snow from this storm.

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It has been a very long time since the Detroit area was in the thick of things in this type of set up. So long I can seem to recall one. Typicially the bulk of the snow is mid state and runs towards the thumb. As you run SE snow turns to rain and we get dry slotted when the snow turn over. Could this be the season where this setup changes?? I think Lake Erie has something to do with the upper air patterns, or it is just a coincedence.

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It would dig further southwest the stronger it is, closing off further west and moving further west. Heck, I thought the NAM was redic and Green Bay was a little far south on that run!!!

It's the NAM... plus as others have stated it matters where it ejects out, and how strong the block is.

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