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Moving Through December - Changing Patterns and Changing Diapers


ChrisM

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I think that second shortwave coming through British Columbia by +150 hrs might be the most important contrary to the belief that the amplification of the first one is the make or break with that storm.

Either way we're now looking at the return of the polar vortex in a not-so-ideal position through Day 7. Lake cutters may help thump it around a bit but we will need strat and solar help too in order to completely dislodge it....MJO is 6 feet under now, too.The Euro weeklies were nice but I'm not sure how much stock I'm putting into them given their performance last run.

I think by the end of the month we'll be looking at a -PNA response..which will favor areas north with a bit of a developing gradient...where this sets up will be intersting to see (in terms of New England, not speaking about our area).

But I hate the Euro strat vortex forecasts now. The question moving forward becomes when are we going to see this vortex break down?

Yeah I think I've just about exhausted the stratosphere talk. Each wave type will take a shot at it through the next month or so and probably at some point a breakdown will occur. I'm not sure when that happens but usually it's in January with the kind of atmosphere we have right now.

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Yeah, the MJO completely dying in combination with the 11/27 event not becoming a wave breaker for the -NAO formation really messed things up. That might have been our best change to dislodge the pattern to our favor, until late December, anyway.

I'm skeptical of the Euro weeklies because I don't see a driving mechanism to force a west based -NAO. Wave breakers can only do so much with the stratospheric vortex so awful and the MJO essentially dead. MJO phase 1 also correlates to positive height anomalies over Greenland, too; it's not just a +PNA/Aleutian low thing.

Given weak ENSO state and not strong influence from the Atlantic, the primary pattern forcing will come from the Pacific and the vortex. Both of which look pretty bad.

New England can still do okay from the Aleutian Ridge and temporary Atlantic ridging, forcing a strong thermal gradient/boundary for storms. But us? Meh.

Adam and I were talking about some things that may be related to this in the philly subforum. I brought up the 30mb temperatures over the Equator which are uncharacteristically warm for a -QBO. Go there to get more info because I'm too lazy to rehash haha. I agree that you have to be skeptical about any west based -NAO solution through the rest of the month based on the stratosphere.

The game is over in the Mid Atlantic basically. It is all about New England on the East Coast.

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Yeah I think I've just about exhausted the stratosphere talk. Each wave type will take a shot at it through the next month or so and probably at some point a breakdown will occur. I'm not sure when that happens but usually it's in January with the kind of atmosphere we have right now.

Just when you think we've exhausted the stratosphere talk, you'll start to get more people talking about it and posting maps twice a day. It's only a matter of days, I can sense it.

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Adam and I were talking about some things that may be related to this in the philly subforum. I brought up the 30mb temperatures over the Equator which are uncharacteristically warm for a -QBO. Go there to get more info because I'm too lazy to rehash haha. I agree that you have to be skeptical about any west based -NAO solution through the rest of the month based on the stratosphere.

The game is over in the Mid Atlantic basically. It is all about New England on the East Coast.

Will do!

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It's like Groundhog Day.

1. Argue over whether it's a torch or not

2. Discussing the pending 14 day pattern change

3. Random sports or ski talk

4. Talk about a pending SWFE pattern

You can go back 15 years and it never changes. Like an old sweatshirt, never gets old, little tattered, has some holes but is comfortable like no other. Of course nobody forces anybody to click but they have to.

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You can go back 15 years and it never changes. Like an old sweatshirt, never gets old, little tattered, has some holes but is comfortable like no other. Of course nobody forces anybody to click but they have to.

Be good if there was more talk about where the thinking failed that has resulted in early December being exactly opposite of what we were thinking a few weeks ago. That way we may have a better handle on what is upcoming. As someone pointed out earlier we had this at times last year too with models constantly showing cold in the longer term. Until the euro weeklies are solidly cold in the 2 week range....

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Interesting evolution in the NPAC on the GFS

As expected the former massive Aleutian ridge retrograded through Kamchatka and into eastern Siberia, replaced with a closed low pressure in the Bering straight region. As forecasted from last week a piece of the PV pinched off and is being squeezed underneath the big ridge near Korea and Japan. As this squirts east over the next few days it meets up with a shortwave lobe of the Bering low. Meanwhile from out of the Arctic jet another closed low is forced into the Bering region resulting in a massive phase.

It's good because it rips up heights near AK a bit which should keep the air in North America seasonable at least. Also might reset the pattern... setting up another retrogression scenario, which hopefully turns into the one that turns the pattern down the road in late Dec./Jan.

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I rarely click anymore because it's a lot easier to just read my NWS zone and AFD. It's just a shame this place is becoming increasingly worthless to those who can't refresh the board all day.

yea OK, I get more here than anywhere. Why would you click here?, you have a sub sub forum thread in NNE. Unfortunate that the main board is the worthless side, hurray for subforums you guys wanted. If it wasn't for Don S and Wes I would not even bother with the main board. Lighten up summer is just around the corner.
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Be good if there was more talk about where the thinking failed that has resulted in early December being exactly opposite of what we were thinking a few weeks ago. That way we may have a better handle on what is upcoming. As someone pointed out earlier we had this at times last year too with models constantly showing cold in the longer term. Until the euro weeklies are solidly cold in the 2 week range....

I think Scott, HM ,Will and other explained that very well a couple of days ago. Something about an elephant. Seriously they went into depth on the second wave failure and the MJO crapping out.
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Be good if there was more talk about where the thinking failed that has resulted in early December being exactly opposite of what we were thinking a few weeks ago. That way we may have a better handle on what is upcoming. As someone pointed out earlier we had this at times last year too with models constantly showing cold in the longer term. Until the euro weeklies are solidly cold in the 2 week range....

There has been plenty of talk but between long-winded threads like this one and several subforums, it makes the information harder to find. Also, despite the sensible weather being warmer, a lot of things happened that were projected to happen in early December. Finally, I don't see this "models constantly showing cold in the longer term" thing like you are seeing. What I see is volatile modeling in a pattern where there isn't a dominate force.

The La Niña-like pattern is coming in this week and will be complete by this weekend which should take us through Christmas. Nothing has changed in that regard and still offers wintry opportunities for New England.

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I feel as thou the pattern has morphed into something almost awful and people are tossing around awt's because there is any pattern change. Almost like the way kevin verifys his forecasts.ie the december period is having minor subtle stepdowns in (positivity lol) but they are all mentioned under the guise of this was "on the table" so nothing really changed,(except the weather forecast for sne) I think ryan will be one to get up and say "ya the pattern pretty much sucks but we could get lucky if things break right down the road. Yes its early dec, but boy was this period prog'd to be better a few weeks ago. That's not all, not that it isn't insanely difficult to forecast and no one was expecting ku city. Just something more than hope and change and a well timed swfe, and weenies are just concerned trying to decipher the fact that is seems sustained normal or below temps are being pushd back from early dec to perpetually two weeks ahead and any way u slice it that sucks and this reality seems to get brush'd over Yes this chance was on the table, yes we knew it, but its looking more likely and the recent nao trends and euro ao trends would likely put us on the wrong side of the upcoming gradient most of the time in sne,for the forecastable future,no?unless of course we get lucky. If I was in nne I would be excited about the pattern, if I was in cne I'd be optomistic, but alas were not. A stronger -ao would change my thinking for sne but its not terribly in our favor in the ens anymore. So basically all I'm saying is we should acknowledge the pattern change is not as favorable percentage wise, as we hoped and thought even for mid december, sure we could get lucky,but we could get lucky in a crappy pattern.

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