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December Mid-Long Range Discussion


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The GFS is so lol. Every run is totally different. SE bias. ;)

I think there's a growing signal for the mtns to cash in at least. But yeah, coastal transfers are messy for us and often slower than modeled.

There's usually an area between the blue ridge and say Fairfax county that gets royally screwed with coastal jumpers....i'll give you map readers a minute to figure out where that is

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With the track... looks like the lack of cold air around here is going to be the dagger. Still plenty of time... and the trend is remarkable. Perhaps it threads the needle

We've still got a lot of time. It may end up trending back west... or east for that matter. The 500 look on the GFS changes like crazy every run. The antecedent air mass is not great.. Still hard to hope for a snow event in the lowlands.

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Bob...isn't it more important to see the pattern coming into focus from a near Spring like set up to the cold and stormier (non lake cutting) pattern that would have us in the NAO/AO/PNA/EPO jackpot set up? I figure we may miss the Dec. 27-28 storm and NYC-BOS may bullseye that baby, but the GFS had 2 more big signals from D10 to D15. Your thoughts?

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Well, I'm getting old and my memory is not what it used to be but I don't remember many 850 low tracks that go up the chesapeake after jumping from the apps/ov to off the NC coast. Baroclonic zone would seem much more likely of a track IF it happened as shown but that's about as likely as the skins not having a losing season...oh wait...

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The GFS is so lol. Every run is totally different. SE bias. ;)

I think there's a growing signal for the mtns to cash in at least. But yeah, coastal transfers are messy for us and often slower than modeled.

Agreed. Jumpers usually are not good for our area. But there is one heck of a block up north. It might be enough to get the jump to occur far enough south. Definitely has my interest for MBY.

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How the hell did this go from a CHI special to a coast redeveloper so quick. GFS, lol. Let's see what the good Doctor has in store.

Magic in the maritimes for the most part. It's funny how large of a difference handling a relatively small feature can make when it's a key ingredient.

We've been saying all week that there is really nothing that can force this south with a few exceptions. Not being so darn strong so early. Check. Having some sort of 50-50 feature in the vicinity of the maritimes. Check. Change either one and we have to roadtrip for some deep dish.

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How the hell did this go from a CHI special to a coast redeveloper so quick. GFS, lol. Let's see what the good Doctor has in store.

Watch the 500s in a loop. it is easy to see how a piece breaks off over the maritimes and keeps anything from climbing. Is it right is the million $ question.

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Yeah, slight differences there. That 12z 500mb chart is as close as I've seen to what it looked like "originally" 5-6 days ago when it was a bowling ball snowstorm for us on the progs. Strong Baffin Island ridging and an elongated upper low across southern Canada.

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How the hell did this go from a CHI special to a coast redeveloper so quick. GFS, lol. Let's see what the good Doctor has in store.

Crazy run-to-run changes, that's what.

I guess you could argue that there's some sort of a trend right now, and that the GFS is sniffing out something now that it wasn't seeing earlier, but I'm still expecting Lucy to come waltzing her punk-azz in at any time.

The Doctor will eventually prescribe a large dosage of No.

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Crazy run-to-run changes, that's what.

I guess you could argue that there's some sort of a trend right now, and that the GFS is sniffing out something now that it wasn't seeing earlier, but I'm still expecting Lucy to come waltzing her punk-azz in at any time.

The Doctor will eventually prescribe a large dosage of No.

It actually did see it earlier, kinda, about 5.5 days ago. Watching this whole thing evolve has been the most fun of the season.

I'm really interested in Christmas eve. Not sure it'll be anything, but something to watch.

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Wow @ GFS ensemble mean. As I said in the banter thread, there's always a risk of a biasing of the mean by extreme outliers and the 6z ensembles certainly had a large amount of spread.

12zgfsensemblep12156.gif

Ensembles BARELY have a 50/50, but apparently it's just enough to force confluence over the northeast and keep this storm to our southeast.

12zgfsensembles500mbHeightAnomalyNH144.gif

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Bob...isn't it more important to see the pattern coming into focus from a near Spring like set up to the cold and stormier (non lake cutting) pattern that would have us in the NAO/AO/PNA/EPO jackpot set up? I figure we may miss the Dec. 27-28 storm and NYC-BOS may bullseye that baby, but the GFS had 2 more big signals from D10 to D15. Your thoughts?

I'm probably not the one to ask. Running through the lr @ 500 looks without question cold here. But big changes from a dominant pattern should always be viewed as suspect irt how quickly things evolved.

I have believed that the PNA is likely to at the very least relax. ENS show even more promise of that today but it's still out there.

As far as the storm signals go in the lr, they don't look as good to me this far out as the 26-28 period did to me back at the same lead time but that really isn't saying much to be honest.

If you simply just go off of the d 10-15 on the gfs it's favors dry more than wet. Big ridge showing up in AK that really helps transport a good bit of cold air into our parts. Ridge also flexing in the western US. Problem with that is it cuts off the moisture feed. So we can get some sort of clipperish vort diving out of canada that runs underneath us for a couple inches but if you want something big you have to rely on the split flow with something slipping underneath. Then we have fun with phasing, timing, suppression, etc.

No way I'm making any calls when a very stable pattern appears to be breaking down and reshuffling. But we live and die by temps more often than not so if you believe the gfs in the lr then it's going to be cold. That in itself is a good sign.

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We've still got a lot of time. It may end up trending back west... or east for that matter. The 500 look on the GFS changes like crazy every run. The antecedent air mass is not great.. Still hard to hope for a snow event in the lowlands.

My guess is that it will trend back west if it keeps some kind of upper low over the great lakes but that's a wag. This system remains really tricky. I still think rain is way more likely than snow and a track west of us is more likely than one east but in any formal write up, I'd proably waffle some to give myself room for changes. Yesterday, I didn't do that enough.

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My guess is that it will trend back west if it keeps some kind of upper low over the great lakes but that's a wag. This system remains really tricky. I still think rain is way more likely than snow and a track west of us is more likely than one east but in any formal write up, I'd proably waffle some to give myself room for changes. Yesterday, I didn't do that enough.

Wes,

Nice CWG writeup, by the way (post-Christmas). I begin a week of 7 mids starting tonight on the winter weather desk. Should be interesting to see how this 12/26-27 event will pan out. Either way, regardless of the track, looks like the workload will pick up after the weekend!

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I don't have much to say except that the super ensemble mean for D+8 is the nicest so far by far. The pattern is shown has 3 analogs that produced a 4 inch storm within 3 days of the centered mean, dec 1966, Dec 2009, Jan 1, 2001. It also had another that fell witin 5 days. That big of storm is so limo unusual that having 3 analog dates clustered that closely suggests that the pattern finally is one that is above average for snowfall. The D+11 also isn't that different. I looked for the D+11 Centered mean from Dec 2009 I know I posted it on Eastern back in the day but must have deleted it and then eastern lost all the graphics for the dec thread.

Anyway, here's the 500,

post-70-0-87687900-1356028019_thumb.gif

I still suspect that the coming storm post christmas will be mostly rain but not with nearly as much confidence as earlier. The pattern on the superens mean is a pretty good one through the new year. Of course the models have been all over the place so it would be nice to see the pattern hold for a few days before going completely ga ga on it.

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