Winter '12/'13 Complaint Thread

[michsnowfreak]

Awful developments for Jan. What a complete mess of 2/3s of this winter.

I can never tell if you are being sarcastic or serious. What awful developments? We have been locked into winter since Dec 21st and now have an unfortunate but normal January thaw on the way, a few days of upper 40s and maybe 50s, then back into the cold we go. Only us snowcover mongers (or Chicago posters) should be so pissed off.

[michsnowfreak]

Look, its not the 1970's anymore... We aren't going to beat many of those records in a warm period (AGW, Cycle, Whatever). I'm just surprised how you are letting the last 2 years of OBVIOUS pacific influence, make you so short sighted. The last decade, STL has averaged exactly AVERAGE over the Dec-Jan-Feb time period. Yes, the world is 0.8C warmer, but STL hasn't seen much of a change in regard to the 100 year period.

 

100 years:

Climate.jpg

 

And YOUR lifetime

 

cd71.238.198.56.5.13.15.0.prcp.png

 

nice

[michsnowfreak]

Are we going to create a Part 2 complaint thread?

 

I imagine this one is going to get quite a workout this upcoming week.

 

Whats funny is that all the people from this area who claim to not care about snowcover really should have nothing to complain about. We will be seeing a thaw but with some sort of active weather, and then after that back into the cold and probably/hopefully snowy weather. This is exactly what most here supposedly want.

 

Me on the other hand, I should pop in here. Bare ground looks extremely likely by Friday or Saturday after 3 enjoyable weeks of snowpack.

[Powerball]

Whats funny is that all the people from this area who claim to not care about snowcover really should have nothing to complain about. We will be seeing a thaw but with some sort of active weather, and then after that back into the cold and probably/hopefully snowy weather. This is exactly what most here supposedly want.

 

Me on the other hand, I should pop in here. Bare ground looks extremely likely by Friday or Saturday after 3 enjoyable weeks of snowpack.

 

To be fair, it's not looking good for snowstorm or snowcover lovers.

 

Not only may we lose the snowpack, there's also a posibility that we will go through this supposed pattern shift without a snowstorm in our region. It's definitely looking active for sure, but also warm unless you're in MSP.

 

But ultimately, We still have 3 more months to go for the snowcover to be put back down and for snowstorms. So while some may be tiffed, it's not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.

 

And personally, I'm glad to see this crap on the ground go away. I'm sick of slipping and slidding down Detroit's side streets and I'm also sick and tired of having to avoid icy patches when walking outside.

[michsnowfreak]

To be fair, it's not looking good for snowstorm or snowcover lovers.

 

Not only may we lose the snowpack, there's also a posibility that we will go through this supposed pattern shift without a snowstorm in our region. It's definitely looking active for sure, but also warm unless you're in MSP.

 

But ultimately, We still have 3 more months to go for the snowcover to be put back down and for snowstorms. So while some may be tiffed, it's not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.

 

And personally, I'm glad to see this crap on the ground go away. I'm sick of slipping and slidding down Detroit's side streets and I'm also sick and tired of having to avoid icy patches when walking outside.

I see this every year when a snowpack gets tattered and kinda dirty. People always say just get rid of it, its ugly, and start fresh. But my thing is, as dirty as it may be, as soon as you get new snow it covers it and adds to the appearance. A 2-3" snow can look that much better if there were old drifts and snowbanks around prior to the snow. Meh, I dont know how to say its not looking good for snowstorm lovers. There is absolutely zero way to figure any of that out, lets just gt the cold back as fast as possible. I have heard rumblings that its a good clipper/les pattern, and dt was saying something about seeing a "classic midwest & northeast" snowstorm pattern for later Jan into Feb.

 

Btw, I was in Detroit last night and yes the side streets were slippery with old snow. I forgot they do not quite clean their sidestreets like the suburbs do

[Central Illinois]

yessir

Bad call IMO.

Pattern looks fairly sexy mid month onward.

I agree I think mid month on has potential

Sent from my iPhone 5 using

Tapatalk!

[wisconsinwx]

I'm going to be close to or in meltdown mode if the 12z Euro or a lot of the other models come to pass.  Looks just like the December pattern; good for those NW of us, good for some east of us, and a likely screwzone in the middle, the same middle that experienced it last time.

[SpartyOn]

I can never tell if you are being sarcastic or serious. What awful developments? We have been locked into winter since Dec 21st and now have an unfortunate but normal January thaw on the way, a few days of upper 40s and maybe 50s, then back into the cold we go. Only us snowcover mongers (or Chicago posters) should be so pissed off.

 

A combination of both.

 

Awful developments would be Alek punting Jan. This concerns me in a serious way. lol

[frostfern]

I see this every year when a snowpack gets tattered and kinda dirty. People always say just get rid of it, its ugly, and start fresh. But my thing is, as dirty as it may be, as soon as you get new snow it covers it and adds to the appearance. A 2-3" snow can look that much better if there were old drifts and snowbanks around prior to the snow. Meh, I dont know how to say its not looking good for snowstorm lovers. There is absolutely zero way to figure any of that out, lets just gt the cold back as fast as possible. I have heard rumblings that its a good clipper/les pattern, and dt was saying something about seeing a "classic midwest & northeast" snowstorm pattern for later Jan into Feb.

 

Btw, I was in Detroit last night and yes the side streets were slippery with old snow. I forgot they do not quite clean their sidestreets like the suburbs do

 

The snowpack hasn't even reached 3" this season where I live.  Despite below freezing temps, the lake effect snow machine never got turned on.

[michsnowfreak]

A combination of both.

 

Awful developments would be Alek punting Jan. This concerns me in a serious way. lol

The Chicago thing is just weird. I notice most of their other slow starts (per the chicago records thread) were winters that were sort of miserable throughout the region. This season, there have been numerous snowstorms that have danced to the N,S,E,W around Chicago leaving them in a literal snow hole. Its nothing more than bad luck, but its scary to think that this CAN happen, because it could happen anywhere. That said, winter is not even close to half over, and January is 6 days old with a few-day torch on the horizon. No reason to punt Jan, even in snow-cursed Chicago.

[michsnowfreak]

The snowpack hasn't even reached 3" this season where I live.  Despite below freezing temps, the lake effect snow machine never got turned on.

I can remember times where snowstorms have hit us in SE MI and missed you guys leaving us with a greater snowpack for a few days, but I cannot remember such a long stretch where DTW has had twice the depth GRR has had (at 2 weeks straight now). It has to turn around, and the lake will be your guys savior. If not, this may be the first winter on record where Detroit outsnows Grand Rapids.

[Geos]

I'm going to be close to or in meltdown mode if the 12z Euro or a lot of the other models come to pass.  Looks just like the December pattern; good for those NW of us, good for some east of us, and a likely screwzone in the middle, the same middle that experienced it last time.

 

I definitely won't be happy either if the snow hole continues like it is. I'm still ahead of last winter, which was 2.0" up until the 12th.

Snow holes happen where the terrain is a factor, but that's not a player here in the Midwest (very minor in a few areas). Like you guys say, it's just pure bad luck.

 

Let's just hope the battle zone hangs around for awhile, so are chances remains good for a storm for a longer period of time. Right now I can't see how a repeat of December can happen, especially when it looks to be cold for a long time.

[Powerball]

I can remember times where snowstorms have hit us in SE MI and missed you guys leaving us with a greater snowpack for a few days, but I cannot remember such a long stretch where DTW has had twice the depth GRR has had (at 2 weeks straight now). It has to turn around, and the lake will be your guys savior. If not, this may be the first winter on record where Detroit outsnows Grand Rapids.

VERY unlikely.

Detroit didn't even out-snow Cleveland in what was a pretty awful snow season and LES season countrywide. In fact, Cleveland almost doubled Detroit's snowfall total for 2011-2012. So I'll be damned if Detroit out-snows a place that sees 2x to 3x the snow it does on average.

But that does bring up a good point. If all else fails for those east/southeast of the lakes, there's ALWAYS LES to depend on, even in the crappiest seasons. If the places downwind (E/SE) of the lakes weren't small towns or little Detroits I'd probably move to an LES snow belt myself.

[SpartyOn]

The Chicago thing is just weird. I notice most of their other slow starts (per the chicago records thread) were winters that were sort of miserable throughout the region. This season, there have been numerous snowstorms that have danced to the N,S,E,W around Chicago leaving them in a literal snow hole. Its nothing more than bad luck, but its scary to think that this CAN happen, because it could happen anywhere. That said, winter is not even close to half over, and January is 6 days old with a few-day torch on the horizon. No reason to punt Jan, even in snow-cursed Chicago.

Met wise we are just about half way if you peg the 15th as the reference point. You know what I mean though. Doubtfull another 2010 or 2012 March happens again...BUT you never know.

[Powerball]

The Chicago thing is just weird. I notice most of their other slow starts (per the chicago records thread) were winters that were sort of miserable throughout the region. This season, there have been numerous snowstorms that have danced to the N,S,E,W around Chicago leaving them in a literal snow hole. Its nothing more than bad luck, but its scary to think that this CAN happen, because it could happen anywhere. That said, winter is not even close to half over, and January is 6 days old with a few-day torch on the horizon. No reason to punt Jan, even in snow-cursed Chicago.

It's most likely bad luck attributed to this, though a part of me still thinks it's Karma from the GHD storm.

[BeastFromTheEast]

DTX surprisingly is below normal by 2" snowfall-wise right now..

And with at least this next week looking snow-free, the departure will continue to grow..

 

Good snowpack though so far for you guys so it goes to show you can have an enjoyable time even with below-normal snowfall.. 

[TugHillMatt]

I'm going to be close to or in meltdown mode if the 12z Euro or a lot of the other models come to pass. Looks just like the December pattern; good for those NW of us, good for some east of us, and a likely screwzone in the middle, the same middle that experienced it last time.

NOOOOOOOOOO!

[TugHillMatt]

I can remember times where snowstorms have hit us in SE MI and missed you guys leaving us with a greater snowpack for a few days, but I cannot remember such a long stretch where DTW has had twice the depth GRR has had (at 2 weeks straight now). It has to turn around, and the lake will be your guys savior. If not, this may be the first winter on record where Detroit outsnows Grand Rapids.

Even more impressive: outsnow Muskegon. We are still below 10 inches for the season.

[wisconsinwx]

NOOOOOOOOOO!

 

I'm jumping the gun a bit, because there's still time for things to change, but the median solution seems to be a far W GLC for this weekend, then a system developing in the Ohio Valley by the middle of next week for the second potential snowstorm in the region.  Some, like the 12z GFS, had the second one also being a Western Lakes Cutter, so plenty of uncertainty for sure.

[TugHillMatt]

I definitely won't be happy either if the snow hole continues like it is. I'm still ahead of last winter, which was 2.0" up until the 12th.

Snow holes happen where the terrain is a factor, but that's not a player here in the Midwest (very minor in a few areas). Like you guys say, it's just pure bad luck.

Let's just hope the battle zone hangs around for awhile, so are chances remains good for a storm for a longer period of time. Right now I can't see how a repeat of December can happen, especially when it looks to be cold for a long time.

I don't know if it is bad luck. I think Chicago, Milwaukee, and Muskegon are just in a bad storm track zone, especially from the southwest. It seems the past few winters have had the same paths for storms. Northwest of the zone or suppressed to the southeast. We unfortunately rely on one main storm track to get our snows: the Clipper express.

[TugHillMatt]

I'm jumping the gun a bit, because there's still time for things to change, but the median solution seems to be a far W GLC for this weekend, then a system developing in the Ohio Valley by the middle of next week for the second potential snowstorm in the region. Some, like the 12z GFS, had the second one also being a Western Lakes Cutter, so plenty of uncertainty for sure.

Yeah, it is still a concern of mine. None of the models show the second low being beneficial to us. I know there is still time, but I know what the trends have been the past couple of years in our zone.

[wisconsinwx]

I don't know if it is bad luck. I think Chicago, Milwaukee, and Muskegon are just in a bad storm track zone, especially from the southwest. It seems the past few winters have had the same paths for storms. Northwest of the zone or suppressed to the southeast. We unfortunately rely on one main storm track to get our snows: the Clipper express.

 

Not here, in fact I believe many a clipper in the past several years has passed SW of the region, from the Quad Cities into the Ohio Valley region.  I suppose some of the clippers you are thinking of I haven't thought of as clippers.  We had a couple weak to moderate cutters last winter, just not much vigor or cold air with them, but I believe a couple came from the SW, not exclusively clippers.

[SchaumburgStormer]

I definitely won't be happy either if the snow hole continues like it is. I'm still ahead of last winter, which was 2.0" up until the 12th.

Snow holes happen where the terrain is a factor, but that's not a player here in the Midwest (very minor in a few areas). Like you guys say, it's just pure bad luck.

Let's just hope the battle zone hangs around for awhile, so are chances remains good for a storm for a longer period of time. Right now I can't see how a repeat of December can happen, especially when it looks to be cold for a long time.

I am at a touch over 1" for the season. Another massive storm to the north and I may start blowing up the complaint thread with a blackrock style meltdown...

[TugHillMatt]

.

I am at a touch over 1" for the season. Another massive storm to the north and I may start blowing up the complaint thread with a blackrock style meltdown...

Oops...is it that bad?

[Geos]

I am at a touch over 1" for the season. Another massive storm to the north and I may start blowing up the complaint thread with a blackrock style meltdown...

 

Haha.

 

Yeah Madison to Green Bay does not need another big storm before we get one in!

[Stebo]

Oops...is it that bad?

 

Yes

[BowMeHunter]

I don't know if it is bad luck. I think Chicago, Milwaukee, and Muskegon are just in a bad storm track zone, especially from the southwest. It seems the past few winters have had the same paths for storms. Northwest of the zone or suppressed to the southeast. We unfortunately rely on one main storm track to get our snows: the Clipper express.

 

lol.. wut.. 

 

what's unfortunate is your timing of a move to Muskegon.   Cutters to Wyandotte, LES, and Clippers will bless you again in the future.  You live in a awesome spot but are using a tiny sample size to judge your location to be in a bad storm track zone especially for storms from the SW - those are our bread and butter - some yrs a lot  better than others.  If every winter was like 2007/08 we would avg double of what we really do.  Our sub-forum is a huge area and 9 times out of 10 one area at least is going to get screwed relative to the winners.  You live in a great spot and probably 90% of snow lovers in this sub-forum would trade spots with you in a heartbeat.  If you stick around in Muskegon for 10 yrs - winters will avg themselves out to what is more typical and you will be consoling those who are consoling you now more times than not.

[michsnowfreak]

It's most likely bad luck attributed to this, though a part of me still thinks it's Karma from the GHD storm.

How much more do they need lol? Its way easier for me being a winter person over a snowstorm person like you and many others. I love a storm but sacrificing winter isnt worth it. The GHD storm dropped an incredible 20.2" at ORD and a more "run of the mill" 10.3" at DTW. Since Feb 3, 2011 (after GHD was in the books), DTW has seen 69.2" of snow and ORD has seen 35.2". I would have loved to have a hotel in downtown Chicago from Jan 31-Feb 3, 2011, but if thats the karmas result for getting a 20" storm, Id say no thank you.

[michsnowfreak]

VERY unlikely.

Detroit didn't even out-snow Cleveland in what was a pretty awful snow season and LES season countrywide. In fact, Cleveland almost doubled Detroit's snowfall total for 2011-2012. So I'll be damned if Detroit out-snows a place that sees 2x to 3x the snow it does on average.

But that does bring up a good point. If all else fails for those east/southeast of the lakes, there's ALWAYS LES to depend on, even in the crappiest seasons. If the places downwind (E/SE) of the lakes weren't small towns or little Detroits I'd probably move to an LES snow belt myself.

 

Well CLE (38.9") didnt double DTW (26.0") but I know what you are saying. Whats interesting is that Ive heard from both the SW MI and the CLE crowd in recent years that our area consistently does better in synoptic snows. But in the end to actually have a LES belt city get less snow on a season than us is probably next to impossible.

 

BTW blackrock, with 3+ months to go, ill say it now. In final seasonal total, no way does DTW get more snow than MKG, even though things have been better here to date.

[MidwestChaser]

I thought the 2011-12 season sucked..