11/7 - 11/8 Nor'easter Obs

[ORH_wxman]

BOS had the same issue. There was about 3" of snow on Boston Common but Logan Airport less than 2 miles away sticking out in the harbor had 0.4". In the case of LGA, if the measuring spot is close enough to the water....even with heavy snow falling....they could have only had an inch or two while literally a few hundred yards back from the edge could be 3 times that amount. There's also a chance maybe its just a bad obs, but with such an early season event I wouldn't immediately discount the ob. If it was January, then yes, I probably would.

[Guest Pamela]

This would have been a great storm to take a measurement at Jaynes Hill...as I drove over Bald Hill this morning you could see there was more snow up there than down below.

Storm also put to rest the errant theory "Upton is the snowiest spot on L.I."...her maritime exposure, lack of elevation, "too far east" location and even lack of latitiude couldn't be hidden forever

[Guest Pamela]

Ah...now I see William's and Ray's posts. Great minds think alike.

My best efforts measurement of our snowfall was 3.5". I took a core sample of it using an inverted cocorahs gage this morning (easy to do acurately with such wet sticky snow) and the sample melted down from 2.8" to 0.83" liquid.

I had the same amount when I went to work this morning...good to see you back, Ed.

[NorthShoreWx]

This would have been a great storm to take a measurement at Jaynes Hill...as I drove over Bald Hill this morning you could see there was more snow up there than down below.

Given the elevation and location further west, I wouldn't be surprised to see something in the 8" range +/- on the hill. I canceled a hike I was to lead there this weekend because the trails are officially closed pending inspection of Sandy damage (and the county personnel have been engaged in more pressing matters related to the storm). I'll probably hike somewhere, but can't bring a club group if the park is officially closed.

PS If you live in the area and bring your pets to the dog run, that part is open.

[TyPenn13]

I'm not usually one to comment here, but I always enjoy reading the obs. around the region.

I can tell you I have a lot of contact with LGA during weather events, and a more accurate ob. looks to be around 2-3".

[NorthShoreWx]

Storm also put to rest the errant theory "Upton is the snowiest spot on L.I."...her maritime exposure, lack of elevation, "too far east" location and even lack of latitiude couldn't be hidden forever

Upton has been on a multi-year roll. It's an ok spot but definitely not the snowiest long term.

Actually, for the past 2 or 3 years, NYC has been on a roll (although that isn't saying much for last winter).

[JERSEYSNOWROB]

• ^{Still without power for me, so i had to dig my car out and come into work today. I'm hearing from JCP&L maybe by Sunday it will be back! ha ha ha What an extreme week or two this has been for many of us. Like some posters from Monmouth are saying, there were numerous branches snapping off last night by me and for those that are still hanging on and drooping all the way to the ground, they almost look like Palm trees or something!! ha ha ha I still can't believe we had THIS much snow here in early November!!! Unreal! Anyway, before I lost power I recorded 8.1 inches of snow around 12:30am, then went out early this morning to record the same exact amount. So it's possible I may have received a bit more in between those hours and perhaps it compacted down before my morning reading, but still, 8.1 inches is unfreakin-believable!! ha ha ha Some of my friends on the other side of town are reporting 10 inches. But 8.1 imby.}
  

[famartin]

I'm not usually one to comment here, but I always enjoy reading the obs. around the region.

I can tell you I have a lot of contact with LGA during weather events, and a more accurate ob. looks to be around 2-3".

With the observers, or someone else there?

[ag3]

Which is why the LGA number is plausible.

I live 1.5 miles from LGA and drive by it everyday. Today in the morning, I pulled up to the "Welcome to LGA" sign and measured 3.5" there. I sent it to Upton as well.

You can drive by the area and look towards the runways and inside the airport and even right now, with all the melting, you can clearly see 2"-3" left there.

There is nothing plausible about the 1.1". It's ludicrous and an embarassment to the weather records.

Their observations are ludicrous as well.

LGA was under the HEAVIEST banding the entire time. While driving home yesterday at 5:30PM, I passed LGA and there was VERY HEAVY snow falling with visibilities of less then 1/4 mile. I couldnt even see the Traffic Control Tower from the highway! Yet their observations for that time show light snow and 3 mile visibility.

On the way home today, I'm going to try and go deep into the airport and take measurements right next to the terminals with pictures just to keep proving the point.

[ag3]

There is snow right up to the water. Astoria Park had 4" of snow as of 7:30am today.

Driving by LGA, the gas station right on the water and next to LGA also easily had 3" left, after the melting.

[ag3]

BOS had the same issue. There was about 3" of snow on Boston Common but Logan Airport less than 2 miles away sticking out in the harbor had 0.4". In the case of LGA, if the measuring spot is close enough to the water....even with heavy snow falling....they could have only had an inch or two while literally a few hundred yards back from the edge could be 3 times that amount. There's also a chance maybe its just a bad obs, but with such an early season event I wouldn't immediately discount the ob. If it was January, then yes, I probably would.

LGA always undermeasures during marginal temp events. Astoria is right on the water and in the middle of a cement urban factory and received 4"-5", 1 mile from LGA.

2-3 miles east of LGA, along the coast as well, in Bayside, Whitestone and College Point, the snow totals grew to 6"-8". It has more to do with the urban heat effect, IMO.

[NorthShoreWx]

LGA always undermeasures during marginal temp events. Astoria is right on the water and in the middle of a cement urban factory and received 4"-5", 1 mile from LGA.

2-3 miles east of LGA, along the coast as well, in Bayside, Whitestone and College Point, the snow totals grew to 6"-8". It has more to do with the urban heat effect, IMO.

They may have measured incorrectly...or perhaps they measured correctly at a toasty location. I think it is possible that the discrepancies in the measurement could have to do with siting rather than measurement technique.

That being said, there is still climatological value in having consistent measurements from a waterside, UHI infested location. There is less value to inconsistent siting or poor measurement.

[famartin]

LGA always undermeasures during marginal temp events. Astoria is right on the water and in the middle of a cement urban factory and received 4"-5", 1 mile from LGA.

2-3 miles east of LGA, along the coast as well, in Bayside, Whitestone and College Point, the snow totals grew to 6"-8". It has more to do with the urban heat effect, IMO.

I'm not sure where exactly they are measuring at LGA, but I do know the ASOS is across a taxiway from the water. And it reported temps which make it perfectly reasonable for there to have been much less snow right there at the ASOS, and much more further inland. Here's some maps from Wunderground showing exactly that.

[TyPenn13]

With the observers, or someone else there?

Operation managers.

To be fair, I believe the FAA obs. are done on the west side of the airport which I've been told is a warmer spot at night. That said, the occurred a little earlier than that. I'm trusting what I've been told over the 1.1 recorded by NWS, but that's just me.

[Guest Pamela]

Actually, for the past 2 or 3 years, NYC has been on a roll (although that isn't saying much for last winter).

Considering her 1970 - 2000 body of work, she was *long* overdue...

[ag3]

I'm not sure where exactly they are measuring at LGA, but I do know the ASOS is across a taxiway from the water. And it reported temps which make it perfectly reasonable for there to have been much less snow right there at the ASOS, and much more further inland. Here's some maps from Wunderground showing exactly that.

The "Welcome to Laguardia Airport" sign is where it says Bowery Bay on this map. Would that not be affected as well? I measured 3.5" there today at around 8:00am.

Thanks.

[famartin]

The "Welcome to Laguardia Airport" sign is where it says Bowery Bay on this map. Would that not be affected as well? I measured 3.5" there today at around 8:00am.

Thanks.

Maybe, you'd need to have a thermometer out there to find out.

[ag3]

I'm not usually one to comment here, but I always enjoy reading the obs. around the region.

I can tell you I have a lot of contact with LGA during weather events, and a more accurate ob. looks to be around 2-3".

2-3" would be fair. Since 2" or so of the snow 1st stuck only on grass and dirt. 2"-3" would be understandable due to the nature of the airport's location and the method they use to measure.

But 1.1" is terribly innacurate.

I think the FAA observer completely mismeasured.

They recorded .7" during their 1st report at around 6pm (which was ludicrous to begin with)

Then from 7pm to midnight he only reported an additional .4"! For a total of 1.1"

That is not even remotely possible.

[TyPenn13]

To be honest, I don't know where anyone measured from, including my report. However, I'll note the western end of LGA was recording < 33 through much of the event, if the ob is taken there (where I suspect it is) it leads me to understand it even less. Thanks for the ASOS obs, but I'll note the surface temps out there were closer to 32-33 through the event.

[famartin]

2-3" would be fair. Since 2" or so of the snow 1st stuck only on grass and dirt. 2"-3" would be understandable due to the nature of the airport's location and the method they use to measure.

But 1.1" is terribly innacurate.

I think the FAA observer completely mismeasured.

They recorded .7" during their 1st report at around 6pm (which was ludicrous to begin with)

Then from 7pm to midnight he only reported an additional .4"! For a total of 1.1"

That is not even remotely possible.

If you are so convinced it is wrong and it bothers you so much, then why don't you call Upton and ask them to look into it?

[ag3]

If you are so convinced it is wrong and it bothers you so much, then why don't you call Upton and ask them to look into it?

I've emailed them already.

Upton changed LGA's report twice in the past 3-4 years and they changed JFK once. I cant name the storm but they've done it in the past.

[green tube]

Incredible storm in Monmouth County.

what a horrific week for trees in new jersey.

6.5" here in e. brunswick.

similar amount in hightstown (work).

[Sundog]

It's not like LGA had the whole sound inundating them with warmer air with a NE or ENE wind. They had north winds coming off mainland with a thin strip of water in between, the East River. If anything I had a better fetch off the water since my due north wind goes over a wider part of the sound, to the east of the airport.

[ag3]

It's not like LGA had the whole sound inundating them with warmer air with a NE or ENE wind. They had north winds coming off mainland with a thin strip of water in between, the East River. If anything I had a better fetch off the water since my due north wind goes over a wider part of the sound, to the east of the airport.

Take a drive to Fort Totten parking lot. Sits directly on the LI sound and has a direct effect. Even right now, after all this melting, they have snow left.

[Guest Pamela]

It's not like LGA had the whole sound inundating them with warmer air with a NE or ENE wind. They had north winds coming off mainland with a thin strip of water in between, the East River. If anything I had a better fetch off the water since my due north wind goes over a wider part of the sound, to the east of the airport.

This sort of thing happens alot in the fall up by the Great Lakes...right along Lake Erie it will be raining or a mix of rain and snow...while a couple of miles to the east several inches piles up...though the Flushing Bay / Lake Erie comparison may not wash.

[LongBeachSurfFreak]

The straight north wind did here! Around 5 inches and we had barely a dusting last year! Simply remarkable! There is no way the LGA ob is correct. Like others said if there were an east component to the wind then maybe.

[WeatherFox]

The snow gradient on this storm was impressive and one could see the local geography, climatology, closeness to the water with marginal surface, upper air temperatures at play. I'm in Beechhurst, Whitestone NY a few blocks from the water -- between Powells Cove, Little Bay, and Long Island Sound. I observed a couple of inches which increased as one drove north to south up Utopia Parkway.

As reported Bayside, NY which is 1 to 2 miles away, further inland and to my south received about 6 inches of snow. So the measurements increased over short distances with a marine influence. This imo, this factors into KLGA measurement discussion.

[jamesny]

As I was driving home last night from LIE, I noticed that as I was heading West to East, the accumulations were higher. A spot in Woodside had a bit under 3 inches at 6pm. Near booth memorial and Kissena blvd, I noticed it was close to 5" around 7pm. At my house in bayside, I measured close to 6 inches around 8pm.

[nzucker]

Upton has been on a multi-year roll. It's an ok spot but definitely not the snowiest long term.

Actually, for the past 2 or 3 years, NYC has been on a roll (although that isn't saying much for last winter).

The NYC area has been on an incredible roll since Winter 00-01. The 2000s were the first decade since the 1960s to average 30" snowfall per year. 09-10 and 10-11 were the snowiest consecutive winters with 113.3" falling. Only 33% of winters since 00-01 (4/12) have had below average snowfall, and 50% of winters since 00-01 (6/12) have had 40" or more, which is about 150% of Central Park's historical average and around 160% of average if you use the 30-year normals. Winter 02-03 through Winter 05-06 were the first time KNYC had ever had four consecutive 40" winters.

I do agree that LI has been incredibly lucky though, perhaps doing the best in this historic stretch as well as Monmouth/Ocean County in NJ which has been receiving far more snow, especially large storms, than climo would favor, particularly due to 09-10 and the February 5th Nor'easter. Storms that stand out for Long Island over other NYC areas in my mind are PDII (JFK had close to 25", so South Shore must have been similar), Dec 5, 2003 Nor'easter (Smithtown had 15.5"), January 27, 2004 super clipper (Smithtown had 13.5"), January 23, 2005 (Brookhaven ended up 78.5" seasonal thanks in part to the January blizzard), December 19, 2008 (North Shore LI and Westchester had close to 8"), December 19, 2009 (Upton recorded 26.9", breaking their record), January 12, 2011 (14.5" fell here in Westchester and LI was similar), and this recent snowstorm (Nassau County had around 8" but Freehold NJ had 13")....

[MJO812]

What a great storm. I received more snow last night than whole winter last season.