GL/MW/OV December 2010 disco thread PART II

[Thundersnow12]

a nice drizzle here but temps hovering above freezing at 33/34 with a gusty southeast wind.

vis under a mile with the fog.

[michsnowfreak]

That's not as bad as a couple of TV mets around here who would smile while telling you about bad weather (storms/rain/snow). Sometimes its ok not to smile...

As for today it been kind of unusual weather today, filtered sunshine with high clouds, hazy skies (vis around 3-5 miles all day) and temps around mid 20s all day but still looks like some melting going on today.

There was some melting around the edges so to speak, but the snowdepth has not budged. This is a good sign as it is holding a hefty amount of water. The snowbanks are literal icebergs in places, I saw some kids in a parking lot today playing on some. Even a big adult like myself would not sink an inch into them, slip on them maybe but not sink . That said, its obvious that by Saturday afternoon we will be seeing something we have not seen since December 11th: patches of grass. It may not be a full bare ground, but i can say goodbye to even the busy roads having a solid snowcover, and say hello to big bare patches around trees. I just hope its not what we tend to see in thaws, it stays warm JUST enough to reduce the ground to just piles then the cold rushes in. Id like to keep at least a residential area snowcover.

[michsnowfreak]

Not to pick on you (in fact, you're a great poster, always providing a good balance of info!)...but these posts just go to show how horrible our climate is for snow lovers. I alluded to this in a separate thread...but the fact that DTW's long-term average Dec. snowfall is only 8.9" is sad. That's why we all get so frustrated on this board. Deep down, we know that "on paper" (and relative to climo), it looks good...but in our hearts, it's really not that much snow or cold.

Example: in Chicago (ORD), Dec. 2010 will go down with a departure of about -5.0F and about 16" of snow. 9" of snow is normal. So, on paper, it's a cold month vs. normal, with 78% more snowfall than average. SOunds great, right? However, no really cold temps (all of last winter and this winter so far, ORD has only managed a -1F reading as its coldest temp), and the snow depth in Dec. 2010 never got above 5" IMBY. Plus, the snow depth on Dec 31, 2010 will be 0".

Moral of the story: on paper (relative to climo), it looks like ORD had a great December...but "on the ground", it just wasn't anthing to write home about. Our climo sucks...no two ways around it.

Not trying to be a grinch; I'm just echoing the frustration of a snow lover.

Happy New Year to all...maybe we can get a Jan. 2009-like arctic outbreak in a few weeks. That's about all we can hope for!

Let me tell you something Ive learned over the years on the boards....a snowlover, in any region, is never fully happy LOL. I saw it in 2007-08, when we got nearly 80 inches of snow in metro-Detroit but at times felt inferior to the 100" that fell between MKE-MSN. Also, keep in mind a snowlover notices when a snowstorm is going on in other places, full of jealousy, but a week later, when said snowlover is getting the snowstorm and the area that previously got a storm is dry, no one pays attention to that previous area anymore. Basically, someone is always getting a snowstorm, so a snowlover in every other region thinks "why not me". For people like us, throw in the fact that you have to hear all the rest of the general public grumble about how harsh our winters are, it CAN get frustrating.

As I mentioned before, by the standards of about 80% of the country, Detroit/Chicago winters ARE harsh. We just see what goes on north of us and in the LES belts and get jealous. But as others pointed out, go much farther north and your "fun" is primarily in fall and spring. You spend the winter in the icebox and yes, there is snow on the ground, but rarely an exciting winter storm. And lets face it, winter storms are welcomed ANY time, but most fun IN winter. Actually its funny, my fellow SE MI friends who are complaining about this cold, white but boring weather we have...guess what...that is regular winter in the northern tier away from the lake belts. You go weeks at a stretch without a flake and nostril-closing cold. Or look at NYC, they get buried in snow, the snow has already begun the melt and who knows the next flake they will see.

Realistically, our climate doesnt suck at all for winter lovers who normally like the frequent snowfalls. Its actually some of the best non-les climate you can get. Clippers, cutters, shortwaves, bowling ball systems...we are in a good area to see it all. Thats why this boring weather, with cold around, seems foreign to us lol.

The ironic thing about December snowfall at Detroit btw, is how variable it has been throughout the decades

Season   		Oct        Nov  	Dec    	Jan    	Feb    	Mar  	Apr   	May  	TOTAL   		
  1880s    T 	1.9”   8.7”  13.1”   9.2”   8.0”   4.8”   0.6”	47.3”

1890s    T 	3.9”  10.1”   9.3”   9.4”   8.8”   1.1”	0  	42.7”

1900s    T 	1.9”   9.5”  11.3”  14.6”   7.5”   1.4”   0.1”	46.3”

1910s    T 	1.6”   9.3”  12.2”   7.9”   8.2”   0.4”   0.2”	39.7”

1920s   0.2”   3.4”  10.0”  12.3”  11.2”   5.5”   2.9”   0.6”	46.1”

1930s   0.2”   3.0”   5.8”   8.0”   7.5”   7.3”   1.2”	0      32.9”

1940s   0.1”   2.6”   5.9”   6.5”   6.7”   3.7”   2.0”	0  	27.6”

1950s    T 	4.7”   7.5”  10.3”   7.5”   7.3”   0.6”	T  	37.8”

1960s    T 	2.1”   7.6”   6.7”   8.3”   6.0”   1.1”	0  	31.8”

1970s    0 	4.5”  13.1”  12.2”   7.5”   6.3”   1.9”	0  	45.6”

1980s   0.6”   2.3”  10.9”  10.8”  11.4”   7.5”   1.8”	0  	45.2”

1990s   0.1”   1.5”   6.1”  12.9”   7.7”   7.7”   1.2”	0  	37.3”

2000s    T 	1.1”  12.3”  13.3”  10.1”   6.5”   2.0”	T  	45.3”

[daddylonglegs]

I've mentioned this before, but all this snow is causing huge problems...locally and all around this area:

StarTribune:

"I've never seen ice dams as severe as we've had this year," said Reuben Saltzman of Structure Tech, a Minneapolis home inspection business. "I keep hearing the same thing over and over from homeowners: 'I've lived here a long time and I've always had ice dams, but they've never been this bad and they've never caused roof leaks until this year.'"

Beyond costs and annoyances, ice dams present real danger. In the past week, at least two metro residents died in falls while trying to shovel their roofs, and several more were seriously injured with broken arms, legs and, in one case, a shattered pelvis.

http://www.startribune.com/local/112637389.html?elr=KArks:DCiUHc3E7_V_nDaycUiacyKUnciaec8O7EyU

[cyclone77]

Temps are actually rising here this evening. We dropped to 34 after sunset, but have since come up to 36, which is the high for the day so far. Outside all you can hear is the sound of dripping. The snow still looked pretty fresh early this morning, but it's already starting to get that off-white, tired look to it now lol. It's become ugly enough that I honestly won't mind if it all melts at this point. Kind of funny how my mindset changed in that way. Hopefully we'll get another really good cover again later in January, but I highly doubt it will ever get back to as impressive as it was here lately. At least the timing was great in having a deep snow cover around xmas.

[Chicago Storm]

Wednesday, December 29th:

Hi: 38F

Lo: 16F

Overall Sky Conditions: Cloudy.

Max Wind Gust: 15MPH

Rainfall: Trace

Snowfall: 0.0"

[Chicago WX]

Snow pack hit with a hard left overnight, patches of grass around the trees now visible. And the dense fog was a big fail, as winds stayed up enough to prevent it forming.

[cyclone77]

Wow, I knew we'd lose a little snow overnight, but I can't believe how much melted off. Lost almost 4" overnight, and are already down to 6". This stuff might be completely gone by this time tomorrow. This may allow us to get even warmer tomorrow. Mid to upper 50s don't seem unlikely at all anymore tomorrow.

[Chicago WX]

We should be wiped clean here by tomorrow morning. Very good chance at 60º+ tomorrow, especially considering it's LAF.

[michsnowfreak]

A little OT, Im surprised at how many want the snowpack all gone because its getting tattered and dirty. Of course they want it to return quickly, but I look at it like this. Save whatever you can, that way the next time it snows, you have something already there to cover up lol.

Had some glazing this morning, its 35F now but it took til now to get the glazing to melt. Apparently ground temps colder than surface temps. Snowpack depth-wise hasnt budged...yet...but it is certainly getting sloppy and dirty around the edges.

[Chicago WX]

A little OT, Im surprised at how many want the snowpack all gone because its getting tattered and dirty. Of course they want it to return quickly, but I look at it like this. Save whatever you can, that way the next time it snows, you have something already there to cover up lol.

Had some glazing this morning, its 35F now but it took til now to get the glazing to melt. Apparently ground temps colder than surface temps. Snowpack depth-wise hasnt budged...yet...but it is certainly getting sloppy and dirty around the edges.

There only seems to be a minority of us that like snowpack longevity, even old and crusty.

Quite frankly, what bothers me is the "it might as well be warm if it's not snowing" crowd. Warm is supposed to be for Spring and Summer IMO. Let us coldwantistas have our due for 3 months, you know? The warmwantistas get the other 9 months of the year.

[Chicago WX]

I still think we'll break, or at least tie, the record high at the airport here tomorrow. LAF always overachieves in these kind of set ups.

LAF - Purdue Airport

12/31: 62º in 1965

1/1: 56º in 2000

Sun out here now this morning, maybe a run at 50º or more today. Shame that this torch will taint an overall pretty cold month, statistic wise.

[michsnowfreak]

There only seems to be a minority of us that like snowpack longevity, even old and crusty.

Quite frankly, what bothers me is the "it might as well be warm if it's not snowing" crowd. Warm is supposed to be for Spring and Summer IMO. Let us coldwantistas have our due for 3 months, you know? The warmwantistas get the other 9 months of the year.

I agree, the whole warm if its not snowing mentality blows me away. But then, if I recall, in 2007-08, we heard all the complaining about the thaws (even though the snows came right back). Basically there is no such thing as a winter that is constantly cold AND snowy with deep snowcover. Basically many good winters have a few periods (usually 3-5 weeks each period) of constant cold, snowstorms, and building snowcover. However, then a quiet period comes, either in the form of a thaw that wipes away the snowcover, or a cold boring period where the snows stays but nothing new falls.

A few winters that stick in mind locally. 1947-48 and 1962-63 were very cold winters, with under 30 inches of total snowfall but a snowcover lasting the entire winter. 2004-05 & 2007-08 were winters that saw nearly 80 inches of snow snow but had snowpack-wiping thaws periodically.

Even what we all deem as the perfect winter, '77-78, it basically shut off excitement wise after the Jan 26th blizzard. It was very cold with deep snow but very little fresh snow the rest of the way.

The "perfect" winter in many of our eyes, well, it has never happened!

[Stevo6899]

I agree, the whole warm if its not snowing mentality blows me away. But then, if I recall, in 2007-08, we heard all the complaining about the thaws (even though the snows came right back). Basically there is no such thing as a winter that is constantly cold AND snowy with deep snowcover. Basically many good winters have a few periods (usually 3-5 weeks each period) of constant cold, snowstorms, and building snowcover. However, then a quiet period comes, either in the form of a thaw that wipes away the snowcover, or a cold boring period where the snows stays but nothing new falls.

A few winters that stick in mind locally. 1947-48 and 1962-63 were very cold winters, with under 30 inches of total snowfall but a snowcover lasting the entire winter. 2004-05 & 2007-08 were winters that saw nearly 80 inches of snow snow but had snowpack-wiping thaws periodically.

Even what we all deem as the perfect winter, '77-78, it basically shut off excitement wise after the Jan 26th blizzard. It was very cold with deep snow but very little fresh snow the rest of the way.

The "perfect" winter in many of our eyes, well, it has never happened!

I agree. I think minnesota into the dakotas are having a perfect winter. Although it will be quiet around here for about 3 weeks after this weekend, it only takes a 2-3 week stormy pattern to make this winter a memorable one. They did cal backend snows but I hope it happens in Jan-Feb. As we know it's tough for snow to accumulate in march, unless we get a monster storm which can happen in march.

[michsnowfreak]

I agree. I think minnesota into the dakotas are having a perfect winter. Although it will be quiet around here for about 3 weeks after this weekend, it only takes a 2-3 week stormy pattern to make this winter a memorable one. They did cal backend snows but I hope it happens in Jan-Feb. As we know it's tough for snow to accumulate in march, unless we get a monster storm which can happen in march.

Its not at all tough for snow to accumulate in March. Not sure where you get that from. We just had the oddness of the past 2 Marches being near-snowless after near-record March snow in 2008. In reality March usually sees a few snowstorms.

Last weeks stretch of Feb snow was certainly memorable, but still the winter as a whole doesnt get a great grade, because of how spectacular the previous 2 winters were (plus probably some jealousy of the east coast storms). But after a nice cold, white December...a 2-3 week period of crazy storminess in this winter (which is very possible if not likely) could certainly make this end up being a good winter.

[KokomoWX]

I just broke 40 for the first time this December. I suspect the forecast high of 41 will bust.

[OHSnow]

So in the "you could see this coming from a mile away" department, LAF is under a dense fog advisory until Friday.

Bust.

[IWXwx]

Its not at all tough for snow to accumulate in March. Not sure where you get that from. We just had the oddness of the past 2 Marches being near-snowless after near-record March snow in 2008. In reality March usually sees a few snowstorms.

Last weeks stretch of Feb snow was certainly memorable, but still the winter as a whole doesnt get a great grade, because of how spectacular the previous 2 winters were (plus probably some jealousy of the east coast storms). But after a nice cold, white December...a 2-3 week period of crazy storminess in this winter (which is very possible if not likely) could certainly make this end up being a good winter.

He may have misspoken about snow not accumulating in March. Sure it can, and does accumulate, but it usually has trouble sticking around, at least in this part of the country.

[michsnowfreak]

He may have misspoken about snow not accumulating in March. Sure it can, and does accumulate, but it usually has trouble sticking around, at least in this part of the country.

Thats true, it doesnt last as long. Thats why Im fine with us getting a lasting snowcover in Dec then hopefully storminess last half of winter.

[daddylonglegs]

Melt is really taking off here. Water is literally running off the roof and it isn't even raining.

39.3F... Should finally hit 40F in what seems like a long time.

[snowstormcanuck]

32.5 and it feels like spring. Still holding on to 1" of snowcover.

[IWXwx]

Temp bust here today. Point-n-click has been calling for a high of 40 for today for 3 days. Already 46 at noon and haven't even seen any sun yet. Tomorrow might really be interesting temp-wise.

[snowstormcanuck]

Temp bust here today. Point-n-click has been calling for a high of 40 for today for 3 days. Already 46 at noon and haven't even seen any sun yet. Tomorrow might really be interesting temp-wise.

Wow, that's impressive. I'm guessing you don't have any snow left on the ground?

[daddylonglegs]

Lincoln at 57F, Omaha showing 54F, Des Moines at 54F...

[IWXwx]

Wow, that's impressive. I'm guessing you don't have any snow left on the ground?

Only where plowed into piles. My greatest snow depth for the entire month was 2.5". However, I've had at least a trace on the ground for the entire month of Dec. It looks like only on the 31st will I have zero snow.

[daddylonglegs]

Falls City, NE showing 61F while Alliance, NE showing 12F...

[Chicago Storm]

Already up to 41F here. Snow depth is down to 5"...down from the 9" a few days ago.

[Hoosier]

Temp bust here today. Point-n-click has been calling for a high of 40 for today for 3 days. Already 46 at noon and haven't even seen any sun yet. Tomorrow might really be interesting temp-wise.

Since it doesn't appear that the fog will materialize as previously thought, that is one impediment removed for torching tomorrow.

I still disagree with my fellow LAFer on 60 tomorrow.

[snowstormcanuck]

Only where plowed into piles. My greatest snow depth for the entire month was 2.5". However, I've had at least a trace on the ground for the entire month of Dec. It looks like only on the 31st will I have zero snow.

Thought so, otherwise you'd be inundated with fog making temps that warm almost impossible. Hope you enjoy it. Gotta love that spring time smell.

[daddylonglegs]

Hoosier-

What about my 60F call for Milwaukee ??