NNE Winter Thread

[ctsnowstorm628]

Event totals: 0.7” Snow/0.67” L.E.

Light snow was falling at observations time this morning, with a slushy 0.2” down on the snowboard and 0.45” of total liquid equivalent in the rain gauge from the past 24 hours. In his morning broadcast, Roger Hill used the term “slush storm” to describe this past event, as well as the next one at the end of the week; that seems like the apposite term for the accumulations we’ve been getting in the valley. It’s certainly nice to have this stuff building into the snowpack at least, and the more liquid equivalent that goes into it, the more I have to think that we’re actually starting the winter snowpack down in the mountain valleys. To touch on something else I saw in the thread yesterday – Bob Minsenberger said in his broadcast that he expects the snow from this weekend’s storm to give even the Champlain Valley a white Christmas. On a related note, it’s currently snowing here in Burlington as well.

Below I’ve added the north to south listing of some 48/72 hr snowfall totals from the Vermont ski areas; this event over the past couple of days has not surprisingly favored the northern resorts:

Jay Peak: 7”

Burke: 8”

Smuggler’s Notch: 5”

Stowe: 11”

Bolton Valley: 7”

Mad River Glen: 7”

Sugarbush: 7”

Killington: 2”

Okemo: 3”

Bromley: 0”

Magic Mountain: 1”

Stratton: 2”

Mount Snow: 0”

Details from the 6:00 A.M. Waterbury observations:

New Snow: 0.2 inches

New Liquid: 0.05 inches

Snow/Water Ratio: 4.0

Snow Density: 25.0% H2O

Temperature: 33.4 F

Sky: Light Snow (1-5 mm flakes)

Snow at the stake: 2.0 inches

Burke was snowing yesterday all day at the summit while valleys rained at 40F. Mid Burke has a webcam now, and they were mangled flakes all day and like 34F, 4" new and 8" total makes sense.

Some 2 day totals from around the region:

Lyndonville(700ft): 3.5"

Burke Summit (3,267ft): 8"

Burke Mid Lodge (1,700ft): 6.5"

LSC (1,050ft): 4.3"

Lyndon (1,300ft): 5.25"

Newport: 6.5"

Newark, VT (1,800ft): 7"

Currently 32F and SN-.

[slknight]

Record daily rainfall in Portland yesterday: 3.5". Wet flakes mixing in now.

Just think about how much snow we could have had.

[Lava Rock]

Record daily rainfall in Portland yesterday: 3.5". Wet flakes mixing in now.

WCSH was saying had yesterday's rain been snow, we would have had 3' snow. When would that ever happen? Shouldn't the odds of having moisture and cold air in place for snow be the same as precip and warm air/rain? 3' of snow may happen once in a lifetime in southern maine, yet we can easily pull off one rain storm after another. So frustrating.

[ctsnowstorm628]

WCSH was saying had yesterday's rain been snow, we would have had 3' snow. When would that ever happen? Shouldn't the odds of having moisture and cold air in place for snow be the same as precip and warm air/rain? 3' of snow may happen once in a lifetime in southern maine, yet we can easily pull off one rain storm after another. So frustrating.

Yeah that's basic thermodynamics, lol. The amount of moisture in the air is temperature dependent. Amateur thing to say on air.

[mreaves]

Just think about how much snow we could have had.

OT but everytime I see your screen name I think your in Saranac Lake.

Anyway, not the type of storm I would choose but we still have about 4" at my house and if this stuff freezes, it will be rock solid. I had really expected to lose anything we had gained and be back to bare ground. At this point, I am choosing to ignore what my lying eyes tell me the models show and believe that we will be snow covered from here on out.

[PWMan]

Yeah that's basic thermodynamics, lol. The amount of moisture in the air is temperature dependent. Amateur thing to say on air.

That's all true, but the general point is valid: we were a few degrees away from having significant snow. Obviously we weren't going to get 3', but it would be nice if we could have moisture AND cold air in Maine in mid/late December. Pulling for the Christmas Miracle the GFS is teasing us with, although that's looking so suddenly amped that we'd possibly have p-type issues the way it's depicted.

[klw]

0.6" new overnight. Just enough to cover the spot over the septic where the snow always melts first.

[tamarack]

Continuing -SN in AUG, with some IP periods, but too warm to accumulate atop the 1-2" of gray-white slop. Today's commute was as bad, for road conditions, as any I recall. My area had 1/2-to-1" of 2:1 mess plus RA/ZR overnight and the 1st plow I saw was just coming over the crest of Mile Hill. Cars in ditch, box truck getting towed up the exact middle of Rt 27 with lots of spaghetti tracks behind from folks spinning up the hill, log-loaded semi parked and wondering if he'll make it w/o putting on his chains. MBY has 9" of "snow"-pack with about 2.5" LE; I've shoveled lighter concrete. It took 20 minutes of shoveling and ash-spreading to get my light 2WD pickup out of my 80' long driveway.

[dryslot]

Man, Some of you Maine guys need to chill, It is what it is, We missed out and the mtns and county got railed, Those areas are the places that need it for sledding and skiing

[ctsnowstorm628]

That's all true, but the general point is valid: we were a few degrees away from having significant snow. Obviously we weren't going to get 3', but it would be nice if we could have moisture AND cold air in Maine in mid/late December. Pulling for the Christmas Miracle the GFS is teasing us with, although that's looking so suddenly amped that we'd possibly have p-type issues the way it's depicted.

Lol. NNE will get theirs. I'm leaving for CT tomorrow, so you have no reason to complain!

You'll get slammed now that I'm going home. You watch. Lol

[MaineJayhawk]

Snowing on Monument Square in Portland.

[powderfreak]

12z GFS continues the big upslope event this weekend... current thinking is the chance for 12"+ exists at least at the ski resorts/upper elevations. Maybe 6"< in the mountain valleys?

Summit/Spine areas could easily be seeing a half inch of QPF with 20-30:1 ratios generating 10-15".

[CoastalWx]

WCSH was saying had yesterday's rain been snow, we would have had 3' snow. When would that ever happen? Shouldn't the odds of having moisture and cold air in place for snow be the same as precip and warm air/rain? 3' of snow may happen once in a lifetime in southern maine, yet we can easily pull off one rain storm after another. So frustrating.

That's the dumbest comparison I ever heard. It doesn't work like that. Warmer storms hold more moisture, you can't just use that comparison. I have one, VT would have had 10" of snow in 10hrs if Irene was all snow.

[MainePhotog]

Snow shower here in Portland west end.

[It's Always Sunny]

Yeah that's basic thermodynamics, lol. The amount of moisture in the air is temperature dependent. Amateur thing to say on air.

Lol, that's a statement you would probably see in an Intro to Met exam just to get novice weenies to understand how rain QPF can be converted to snow, although in reality temps do play a huge role in that like you said.

[dryslot]

Hi' date='patten,and most all of the county is almost crippled as we speak,patten is without power,and UMPI is shut down,family said they cant keep up w/plowing its so wet and heavy,as we speak they are near 20" just from this storm,and its still coming hard. Man feast or fannom..But i will take it.[/quote']

Some of my Northern Maine peeps, They are getting pummeled

[tamarack]

That's the dumbest comparison I ever heard. It doesn't work like that. Warmer storms hold more moisture, you can't just use that comparison. I have one, VT would have had 10" of snow in 10hrs if Irene was all snow.

That last is TRULY dumb. However, if one is getting rain at 33-34F while 10 miles north (or 500' higher) folks are 31-32 with +SN, the moisture-holding capacity change is small (though that snow is often 7:1 paste, not 10:1.) PWM had a high of 48 yesterday, so they weren't even close.

[dryslot]

This is where the bad analogy comes in that 1" qpf equals 12" of snow, Does not work that way, That snow was like 6-7:1

[CoastalWx]

That last is TRULY dumb. However, if one is getting rain at 33-34F while 10 miles north (or 500' higher) folks are 31-32 with +SN, the moisture-holding capacity change is small (though that snow is often 7:1 paste, not 10:1.) PWM had a high of 48 yesterday, so they weren't even close.

It's just a horrible comparison. This storm was loaded with a lot of moisture of warmer origins and strong overrunning helped with the enhancement too. I hate when people do that as a comparison because it simply is not proper at all.

[Lava Rock]

Man, Some of you Maine guys need to chill, It is what it is, We missed out and the mtns and county got railed, Those areas are the places that need it for sledding and skiing

C'mon, you know you like to sled from your back door.

[Lava Rock]

That's the dumbest comparison I ever heard. It doesn't work like that. Warmer storms hold more moisture, you can't just use that comparison. I have one, VT would have had 10" of snow in 10hrs if Irene was all snow.

Pardon me for not being a met and asking a weenie question.

[dryslot]

C'mon, you know you like to sled from your back door.

lol, I do, And it does not usually happen until Jan anyways, Nothing is frozen besides down here, But the Rangeley, Jackman and the county got clocked, And i have friends in Eustis and Jackman where i can stay so i will trailer if i have to.............

[CoastalWx]

Pardon me for not being a met and asking a weenie question.

That wasn't directed at you, just a silly comparison from that channel.

[dryslot]

They are panning trails in Jackman.............

[powderfreak]

12z CMC looking better for some decent elevation snows on the front end of the Thur/Fri system and then backside upslope.

Gotta stop from getting excited at this time frame, but think this will be very good for the ski resort. Especially after this last storm came out with a 12" gain on the upper mountain and finally a solid natural snowpack of 12-14" above 3,000ft.

The third panel is pretty ugly but looks like decent snow on the front end.

Then the upslope portion of the storm as it wraps around...

[Lava Rock]

That wasn't directed at you, just a silly comparison from that channel.

that's what I thought after I hit the send button. thanks

[mreaves]

They are panning trails in Jackman.............

That is making my mouth water. To me, that is a much more exciting picture than PF's shots from the slopes. Right now, all I can do is .

[dryslot]

That is making my mouth water. To me, that is a much more exciting picture than PF's shots from the slopes. Right now, all I can do is .

lol, I know it gets my heart rate up, I will be up there around New Years, braaap braaap

[adk]

12z GFS continues the big upslope event this weekend... current thinking is the chance for 12"+ exists at least at the ski resorts/upper elevations. Maybe 6"< in the mountain valleys?

Summit/Spine areas could easily be seeing a half inch of QPF with 20-30:1 ratios generating 10-15".

As I said yesterday. 12-24 above 2500 feet by the time the storm pulls out on monday.

[J.Spin]

For whatever reason this Ski Vermont reports are generally wrong or update weirdly.

As much as I would love for us to get more snow like that, reality is we've had a foot above 2500ft in the past 72 hours...so has Sugarbush, and Jay.

Looking at the individual websites shows a more even snowfall from Sugarbush to Stowe and Jay. Bolton and Smuggs might have been shadowed a bit on the west side with easterly flow from these two events. A friend of mine went to Bolton to skin Timberline and said there was a lackluster amount of snow at that 1500ft elevation. Then drove over this way to skin Mansfield and said there was several more inches on the ground on the east side at that 1500ft elevation.

I actually grabbed all those numbers from the individual ski area websites, but some places provide 48-hour totals, some places provide 72 hours totals, and it’s possible that they weren’t all updated yet. On that note, while I was generally going with 48-hour totals, Stowe’s snow report only lists 24-hour and 72-hour totals, so I had to go with the latter (11”). I think of Stowe as the premiere snow recording mountain around here, so see if you can talk to the powers that be to bridge that gap and get the 48-hour totals in there (unless there’s some logistical/practical/cosmetic reason that 48-hour totals aren’t listed). It seems that with 24 and 72-hour totals documented, 48-hour totals wouldn’t be too difficult to have in there. What I’m going to do is go back and update the accumulations list and indicate 48/72-hr etc to help clarify – I do see that Sugarbush does list their 72-hour total and it indicates 12” new. I also like that Sugarbush seems to be continuing their base-mid-summit reporting system.

On the west side/east side snow – my observations have been similar. Simply by using the Bolton Valley Live Web Cam at ~2,100’, I’ve been able to tell that things are a bit better on the east side. Hence my trips to Stowe vs. Bolton thus far to earn turns. It sure has been nice not to have to drive all the way up the Bolton Valley Access Road just to assess snow depth. One can’t quite tell what’s going on down at 1,500’ at the Timberline Base from the web cam, but you can make a rough extrapolation. I can see that Bolton’s got plenty of depth for a respectable natural base at that 2,100’ now though, so I think the turns on some of the natural snow terrain should start to get really good there if this next storm pans out: