12/20-12/21 Moderate/Intense Clipper Event?

[Sidewinder]

That was a really nice little system for us. The forecast was from 1", then to 1-2", and we picked up somewhere between 3.5 and 4". Parts of my drive have 8-12" after shoveling. For anyone near Indy this is an awful lot of whiteness.

It has since turned to a drizzle/snow mix, with temps outside right near the freezing mark, it makes it a lot easier to shovel.

[Chicago WX]

These seem to be the highest of the LOT CWA reports

1050 PM SNOW MANTENO 41.25N 87.84W

12/20/2010 M5.3 INCH KANKAKEE IL TRAINED SPOTTER

1026 PM SNOW HUNTLEY 42.17N 88.42W

12/20/2010 M5.8 INCH MCHENRY IL TRAINED SPOTTER

0952 PM SNOW ELBURN 41.89N 88.47W

12/20/2010 M5.3 INCH KANE IL TRAINED SPOTTER

[Hoosier]

These seem to be the highest of the LOT CWA reports

1050 PM SNOW MANTENO 41.25N 87.84W

12/20/2010 M5.3 INCH KANKAKEE IL TRAINED SPOTTER

1026 PM SNOW HUNTLEY 42.17N 88.42W

12/20/2010 M5.8 INCH MCHENRY IL TRAINED SPOTTER

0952 PM SNOW ELBURN 41.89N 88.47W

12/20/2010 M5.3 INCH KANE IL TRAINED SPOTTER

LAF getting kooky again? It's up to 33.

[KeenerWx]

December is pretty relentless with the snow...

I mean, yes, we have seen better runs. But seriously, this has been quite a good month.

[Chicago Storm]

Getting in on some freezing drizzle now.

[WestMichigan]

Seriously...I have no good words for this winter so far! Looking at the radar tonight, all I can do is smack my head and laugh in craziness....yet ANOTHER screw job here in Western Michigan. Now I can go back to PA for a week and a half for Christmas and hopefully I'll come back to MAYBE some good news. Last year the heaviest snow we had the whole winter was the time I was away for Christmas...

I hear you. I am not sure a flake even fell over night and today isn't looking good either. I haven't even broken out a snow shovel yet this year. I am heading back to Ohio for a white Christmas. Not something I expected to happen that is for sure.

[ArmyGreens]

I hear you. I am not sure a flake even fell over night and today isn't looking good either. I haven't even broken out a snow shovel yet this year. I am heading back to Ohio for a white Christmas. Not something I expected to happen that is for sure.

Good luck with that! I was expecting to see a good inch on the ground this morning based on what I saw coming across from Indiana. Not even a small dusting. My couple inches is now 3/4" at best. Lots of grass showing now.

Might want to head west instead!

[IWXwx]

Yeah powder is nice looking.

Not bad, huh?

Gotta get both of you guys (along with everyone else that's missed out recently) some snow soon though. Spread the wealth.

Thanks for the spread the wealth wish. I have been way too close to these clippers and not gotten close to you LAF guys' snowfall. It is getting frustrating. You are 75 miles from me with 7-8" and my greatest depth has been 2.5". You've received 17" to my 8.1".

[A-L-E-K]

I think i topped out around 2.75, down to 2" now with zr and compression. Pretty much went down as expected.

[A-L-E-K]

Fortunately I could see this happening from day 1 so I have no emotional attachment to this one. The call of 5% chance I see 2" was being generous.. Congrats though to those again in the sweet spot so to say. These clipper type things are never and will never be my bread and butter.. Cutters is where its at here. And they have been MIA since the end of the winter of 08/09.

amen to that. And your avatar

[Thundersnow12]

so much for that slop fest with an inch...

[csnavywx]

so much for that slop fest with an inch...

Yeah, ended with about 5" and a crust of freezing drizzle on top.

[michsnowfreak]

I would love a good snow pack winter. We've pretty much had snow on the ground here for most of December, save for a day or two. It's funny that 2007-08 was a fantastic winter here in terms of snowfall, but the wild swings in temps made it poor in retaining snow. But we'll see what the future holds...for now life is good here. Hopefully you see some shovelable snow soon.

Yep 2007-08 was crazy. 78 inches of snow, peak depth at 10" (on several occasions) thanks to the thaws not allowing a retaining snowpack. We will have a white Christmas for sure, but Im pulling like heck for some fresh Christmas snowfall.

[michsnowfreak]

Seriously...I have no good words for this winter so far! Looking at the radar tonight, all I can do is smack my head and laugh in craziness....yet ANOTHER screw job here in Western Michigan. Now I can go back to PA for a week and a half for Christmas and hopefully I'll come back to MAYBE some good news. Last year the heaviest snow we had the whole winter was the time I was away for Christmas...

Hmm...wasnt it Feb? The entire southern half of MI (i thought) was blasted with record or near-record snowfall in Feb. There was almost nothing to write home about on Christmas break other than some light snow (unless you mean LES)

[michsnowfreak]

I hear you. I am not sure a flake even fell over night and today isn't looking good either. I haven't even broken out a snow shovel yet this year. I am heading back to Ohio for a white Christmas. Not something I expected to happen that is for sure.

You have had NO shovelable snow this year? Wow I really didnt realize it was THAT bad on the western side of the state. Head down to IN lol, or even over here to the east side of the state, we have plenty of snow and snowbanks around. It can tide you over, because as I said to blackrock, by the end of winter, you will kill SE MI in snow, as well as those places in IN getting socked with snow. You guys always do.

[michsnowfreak]

Yeah, ended with about 5" and a crust of freezing drizzle on top.

a crust of zr is great protection for a snowpack.

[csnavywx]

a crust of zr is great protection for a snowpack.

Oh yeah, I imagine this will be sticking around for quite a while.

[MichMedic]

Seriously...I have no good words for this winter so far! Looking at the radar tonight, all I can do is smack my head and laugh in craziness....yet ANOTHER screw job here in Western Michigan. Now I can go back to PA for a week and a half for Christmas and hopefully I'll come back to MAYBE some good news. Last year the heaviest snow we had the whole winter was the time I was away for Christmas...

Just slide on down to Holland - they've had a decent amount!

Hey, you've had more than me, so yeah....

[mnweather]

I have had about 8-9" with this event and it is still snowing out.

[csnavywx]

Another example of why the NAM can be frustrating to use for forecasting. It nailed the previous system, only to flail horribly with this one right up until the last moment (12z run before the storm).

[roardog]

At least it's actually snowing here from this thing. I wasn't expecting to get anything from it. A dusting so far.

[Harry]

Hmm...wasnt it Feb? The entire southern half of MI (i thought) was blasted with record or near-record snowfall in Feb. There was almost nothing to write home about on Christmas break other than some light snow (unless you mean LES)

There was a very sharp cut off near Grand Rapids on north. Muskegon etc areas north of Grand Rapids really did get the shaft bad last winter and some had close to record low snowfall unlike areas down this way along i94.

As for last December?? It was decent around here atleast had the foot of Lake enhanced snowfall from that wild system that tracked to WI and slammed the Plains. Ended up with 26.6" for the month last Dec. Feb ofcourse was very wild and broke the Feb snowfall record with almost 40" here. This is the month though that had a very sharp cut off up by Grand Rapids.

[Harry]

You have had NO shovelable snow this year? Wow I really didnt realize it was THAT bad on the western side of the state. Head down to IN lol, or even over here to the east side of the state, we have plenty of snow and snowbanks around. It can tide you over, because as I said to blackrock, by the end of winter, you will kill SE MI in snow, as well as those places in IN getting socked with snow. You guys always do.

I believe a few of them places near Grand Rapids are on track to blow some records out of the water for least snowfall ever for the Month of December. A bit below normal here but the records are safe.

[michsnowfreak]

There was a very sharp cut off near Grand Rapids on north. Muskegon etc areas north of Grand Rapids really did get the shaft bad last winter and some had close to record low snowfall unlike areas down this way along i94.

As for last December?? It was decent around here atleast had the foot of Lake enhanced snowfall from that wild system that tracked to WI and slammed the Plains. Ended up with 26.6" for the month last Dec. Feb ofcourse was very wild and broke the Feb snowfall record with almost 40" here. This is the month though that had a very sharp cut off up by Grand Rapids.

Wow didnt realize you guys did so well last Dec. I have to start paying more attention lol. Whats ironic is that my total snowfall last December was 8.0", but my peak depth was 2", and that was only on 3 days (then another 7 days had depth of 1"). Im sitting at exactly 8.0" this December so far as well, yet Im now working on the 10th day with 5" (or more) on the ground. lol. Thats why climatology is my favorite part of the weather, no matter how you slice or dice things, stats are interesting.

[WestMichigan]

Just slide on down to Holland - they've had a decent amount!

Hey, you've had more than me, so yeah....

That is very location dependent. The snow bands setup up such that an area about 10 miles wide got hit hard and within 15 miles it went from 24" to <1". I work in Zeeland and 5 miles west there is snow while there is some grass showing in Zeeland. Go 2 miles east of Zeeland and it is nothing but bare grass and some leftover drifts from earlier snow. I am sure it will snow some day, but for now we have nothing to work with and little hope of any snow in the near future. You don't average about 80" and get shut out for an entire winter.

[Harry]

Wow didnt realize you guys did so well last Dec. I have to start paying more attention lol. Whats ironic is that my total snowfall last December was 8.0", but my peak depth was 2", and that was only on 3 days (then another 7 days had depth of 1"). Im sitting at exactly 8.0" this December so far as well, yet Im now working on the 10th day with 5" (or more) on the ground. lol. Thats why climatology is my favorite part of the weather, no matter how you slice or dice things, stats are interesting.

Yeah south and east of Grand Rapids did pretty good but not so much north and west of there. Hopefully climo pays a visit soon as we have had a unusual amount of these crappy nnw/north flow LES events the past several years and thus why the GRR LES belts ( except Van Buren ) have not done as well climo wise as the rest of the area.

[Harry]

That is very location dependent. The snow bands setup up such that an area about 10 miles wide got hit hard and within 15 miles it went from 24" to <1". I work in Zeeland and 5 miles west there is snow while there is some grass showing in Zeeland. Go 2 miles east of Zeeland and it is nothing but bare grass and some leftover drifts from earlier snow. I am sure it will snow some day, but for now we have nothing to work with and little hope of any snow in the near future. You don't average about 80" and get shut out for an entire winter.

Yeah you are in one of the shaft zones that could see the Dec record smashed for least snowfall ever.

And yeah a shut out is almost impossible in much of the region especially out that way. Heck the record for least snowfall here is about 17-18" and i am inland a bit. I believe the records in that area are in the 20-45" zone ( depending on location ) for least snowfall in a season.

So it will come. Just a matter of when. I say January.

[Baum]

so much for that slop fest with an inch...

since you keep resurrecting the "slopfest theme" here was my general idea from Sunday:

"First, it's weather forum and while you may consider me "poo poohing the system" I call it a realistic view and forums are for discussing varying points of view. Fact is, this appears to be a quick hitting Warm advection snow event with a 4-6 hour window with a 1-3 inch snowfall ending as drizzle. While I am not a pro met I have seen these type of systems plenty in my lifetime. The one thing that argues for more is sometimes these systems can out do what modeling projects ..but the further north and east one gets this will be more diffiult to do. I for one am not a fan of over hyping the event either..see last Sunday's system(OVER HYPED) and for that matter the system that dropped nil on the Chicago area Wednesday eve.(2 days out maybe 2-4" when I felt it was pretty easy to see that the dry air in place was going to lead to a virga fest). My apologies if you cannot deal with realities that sometime it snows and sometimes it doesn't. One more note; when was the last time our area got three 50 inch snowfall years in a row? "

Can only rest on my experience in years of watching weather but my ideas were generally on and I do not over play systems as some do or post every time a flake falls from the sky. Looks like my ideas were pretty much on with a the high end being west of the Chicago area.

Alek Posted Today, 07:43

"I think i topped out around 2.75, down to 2" now with zr and compression. Pretty much went down as expected."

But to leave you happy,: I'm expecting the Christmas Eve system to head down too Louisiana and then head north to northeast over Toledo...First call 16"-24" over your house and a Rain/Snow mix in the city

[beavis1729]

since you keep resurrecting the "slopfest theme" here was my general idea from Sunday:

"First, it's weather forum and while you may consider me "poo poohing the system" I call it a realistic view and forums are for discussing varying points of view. Fact is, this appears to be a quick hitting Warm advection snow event with a 4-6 hour window with a 1-3 inch snowfall ending as drizzle. While I am not a pro met I have seen these type of systems plenty in my lifetime. The one thing that argues for more is sometimes these systems can out do what modeling projects ..but the further north and east one gets this will be more diffiult to do. I for one am not a fan of over hyping the event either..see last Sunday's system(OVER HYPED) and for that matter the system that dropped nil on the Chicago area Wednesday eve.(2 days out maybe 2-4" when I felt it was pretty easy to see that the dry air in place was going to lead to a virga fest). My apologies if you cannot deal with realities that sometime it snows and sometimes it doesn't. One more note; when was the last time our area got three 50 inch snowfall years in a row? "

Can only rest on my experience in years of watching weather but my ideas were generally on and I do not over play systems as some do or post every time a flake falls from the sky. Looks like my ideas were pretty much on with a the high end being west of the Chicago area.

Alek Posted Today, 07:43

"I think i topped out around 2.75, down to 2" now with zr and compression. Pretty much went down as expected."

But to leave you happy,: I'm expecting the Christmas Eve system to head down too Louisiana and then head north to northeast over Toledo...First call 16"-24" over your house and a Rain/Snow mix in the city

Baum - Since you brought this up again...I wanted to re-post my response (post # 640), in case you missed it. Again, nothing personal...but there's a reason why folks on a wx forum often react negatively to posts like yours.

_____________________________________

This isn't directed at you personally...but I want to explain why many on this board react strongly to comments like yours.

This is from a Chicago-metro viewpoint...but obviously it would apply to LAF, STL, KC, etc.

First of all, a Chicago winter featuring "normal" snowfall (38", with two 6+ inch snowstorms) is pitiful. As a snow/cold lover (which many folks on this forum are), it would kill me if I thought Chicago would only have 38" of snow for the upcoming (or any) season. That amount of snow works out to about 2" per week for the snow season...very frustrating and depressing for a snow lover. And, "normal" winters are mild in Chicago; the normal high on Dec 1 and Feb 28 is 40F, and it only falls to 30F at the coldest time of the year. That's not cold!

A prime example is this winter so far: Chicago (ORD) has seen about 7" of snow (about 5" imby in Carol Stream), yet we get it pounded into us that it's "above normal" so far. But there's only 1" on the ground here, with patches of bare grass evident in some places. It's frustrating having to hear how snowy and cold it has been here so far this winter (mostly from the media)...but in the back of my mind, I'm thinking "are you kidding me? We only have 1" of snow on the ground in mid-Dec?? It's winter...it should be cold and snowy...period." Such is the life of a snow lover, I suppose...and many folks on this board can relate to that.

It's bad enough that we have to hear from 99% of the public in Chicago (news media, etc.) how "bad" winter can be here...when, in reality, winters here are wimpy for the most part. If the temperature drops below 20F, everyone complains about it. Try living in MSP, LaCrosee, Duluth, etc...when they have 3 months of morning lows below 15F (and in INL, the average low is -10F in January). And in the upper midwest, you can count on a continuous snow cover throughout winter, unlike here. My point is that folks in MN and WI laugh at our winters here, yet Chicagoans complain because they're so brutal. It's a joke. Sure, I know my climo, and others know theirs...but we don't need to be reminded all the time about how wimpy it is.

Ok...end rant. Back to your regularly scheduled thread. Again, this isn't meant to be critical of you...but I want to lay out why it's frustrating to see posts like yours on a weather board. It's bad enough to hear this from Joe Public, so I'd rather not hear it on this board. It's like when people complain about the devastating effects of hurricanes in a hurricane thread on this board. People in those threads don't want to hear about that; it just doesn't fit the audience.

With all of this said, I guess it's fitting to end with this: "enjoy the weather, as it's the only weather you've got." Very true...but hard to live by when you're the < 1% of the population that loves extreme wx.

[michsnowfreak]

Baum - Since you brought this up again...I wanted to re-post my response (post # 640), in case you missed it. Again, nothing personal...but there's a reason why folks on a wx forum often react negatively to posts like yours.

_____________________________________

This isn't directed at you personally...but I want to explain why many on this board react strongly to comments like yours.

This is from a Chicago-metro viewpoint...but obviously it would apply to LAF, STL, KC, etc.

First of all, a Chicago winter featuring "normal" snowfall (38", with two 6+ inch snowstorms) is pitiful. As a snow/cold lover (which many folks on this forum are), it would kill me if I thought Chicago would only have 38" of snow for the upcoming (or any) season. That amount of snow works out to about 2" per week for the snow season...very frustrating and depressing for a snow lover. And, "normal" winters are mild in Chicago; the normal high on Dec 1 and Feb 28 is 40F, and it only falls to 30F at the coldest time of the year. That's not cold!

A prime example is this winter so far: Chicago (ORD) has seen about 7" of snow (about 5" imby in Carol Stream), yet we get it pounded into us that it's "above normal" so far. But there's only 1" on the ground here, with patches of bare grass evident in some places. It's frustrating having to hear how snowy and cold it has been here so far this winter (mostly from the media)...but in the back of my mind, I'm thinking "are you kidding me? We only have 1" of snow on the ground in mid-Dec?? It's winter...it should be cold and snowy...period." Such is the life of a snow lover, I suppose...and many folks on this board can relate to that.

It's bad enough that we have to hear from 99% of the public in Chicago (news media, etc.) how "bad" winter can be here...when, in reality, winters here are wimpy for the most part. If the temperature drops below 20F, everyone complains about it. Try living in MSP, LaCrosee, Duluth, etc...when they have 3 months of morning lows below 15F (and in INL, the average low is -10F in January). And in the upper midwest, you can count on a continuous snow cover throughout winter, unlike here. My point is that folks in MN and WI laugh at our winters here, yet Chicagoans complain because they're so brutal. It's a joke. Sure, I know my climo, and others know theirs...but we don't need to be reminded all the time about how wimpy it is.

Ok...end rant. Back to your regularly scheduled thread. Again, this isn't meant to be critical of you...but I want to lay out why it's frustrating to see posts like yours on a weather board. It's bad enough to hear this from Joe Public, so I'd rather not hear it on this board. It's like when people complain about the devastating effects of hurricanes in a hurricane thread on this board. People in those threads don't want to hear about that; it just doesn't fit the audience.

With all of this said, I guess it's fitting to end with this: "enjoy the weather, as it's the only weather you've got." Very true...but hard to live by when you're the < 1% of the population that loves extreme wx.

We hear the same thing about winter here in Detroit. Though I will say, winters in Chicago and Detroit are considered harsh by probably 80% of the nation. When you are talking winters of northern MN, WI, and MI...that is true winter in our eyes because its so close, but to many ORD/DTW's weather would be considered extremely harsh. One thing Ive learned being on weather boards for the past 8 years or so, EVERYONES expectations exceed their climo. I dont care what region its in either. Thats why I always try and interject optimism in cases where people may be down, because chances are they are down when climo says things are going ok. I think its a case of studying past winters so in depth, and seeing a few of the real bad ones and knowing that Ive never seen anything close to that, and just wondering how a weatherboard of snowlovers would handle such a winter lol.