hooralph Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 Forgive the separate thread, but wanted to understand what some of the specific risks/impacts are. Given the stakes, seems worth a focused discussion. Obviously in Manhattan most of the power grid is underground. Where are we vulnerable to outages? what's the risk of a widespready blackout? Is there any part of the subway infrastructure more vulnerable to surge flooding? This is the flood map. http://www.nyc.gov/html/oem/downloads/pdf/hurricane_map_english.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amped Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 The just need to keep Food, Water, Electricity, Plumbing, Electrical, Medical, Law Enforcement and Transportation to 7 million people. Good luck!! The 2003 blackout almost caused mass chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikolai Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 i feel like the city will be ok besides some subway flooding, there's no way power goes out, it never does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amped Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 i feel like the city will be ok besides some subway flooding, there's no way power goes out, it never does They have never dealt with a surge this high. So I consider the infrastructure untested. Untested things usually fail in unexpected ways. Hopefully it is redundant enough that they can quickly replace what fails. And I'm glad I'm not near it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikolai Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 They have never dealt with a surge this high. So I consider the infrastructure untested. Untested things usually fail in unexpected ways. Hopefully it is redundant enough that they can quickly replace what fails. And I'm glad I'm not near it. Really? You think it will be that bad? How much flooding do you see in Manhattan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geos Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 I remember the concern with Irene was the salt water surge would get into the subway tunnels where the power lines were! Salt water corrodes... I was wondering - will JFK be vulnerable from surge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooralph Posted October 28, 2012 Author Share Posted October 28, 2012 I really, really need the 1/2/3 to stay intact, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosh Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Really? You think it will be that bad? How much flooding do you see in Manhattan? Manhattan is fine. The real problem is in the outer boroughs which have low-lying neighborhoods and above-ground power transfer stations which could be knocked out by flooding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldalex Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Don't forget about steam pipes in Manhattan which if hit by the flood water will fail. Theyll start shutting those if flooding lookalike its imminent . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amped Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Really? You think it will be that bad? How much flooding do you see in Manhattan? Small cars can handle a gas shortage better than SUVs. Big cities need a lot of infrastructure to survive. If that infrastructure goes down mass chaos erupts fast, faster than it will in the suburbs where people can fend for themselves for a few days. Just better hope everything holds up. Were you there for the 2003 blackout? Pretty nuts what happens god forbid NYC looses power for a day. If everything holds, NYC is fine. But if any of the items I listed in my earlier post fail it's major trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleetussnow Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Don't forget about steam pipes in Manhattan which if hit by the flood water will fail. Theyll start shutting those if flooding lookalike its imminent . They already have started steam pipe shutdowns. It takes awhile for them to cool so it's now or never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Lizard Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Office buildings in Houston by code are supposed to not lose windows in a Cat 3. But they didn't figure airborne objects, or something, because Hurricane Ike was only a Cat 2 and broke a lot of windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Lizard Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I remember the concern with Irene was the salt water surge would get into the subway tunnels where the power lines were! Salt water corrodes... I was wondering - will JFK be vulnerable from surge? worst case scenrios I've seen, both JFK and LGA would have flooding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geos Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 worst case scenrios I've seen, both JFK and LGA would have flooding. Damn - both at once would be horrible! I noticed on Google Earth the elevations of both airports are between like 3-11 feet above sea level! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snywx Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 The just need to keep Food, Water, Electricity, Plumbing, Electrical, Medical, Law Enforcement and Transportation to 7 million people. Good luck!! The 2003 blackout almost caused mass chaos. Actually 8.2 Million.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooralph Posted October 30, 2012 Author Share Posted October 30, 2012 Guess I got my answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocoAko Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Guess I got my answer. That you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BxEngine Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Guess I got my answer. You jinxed us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-K Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 there's no way power goes out, it never does good call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntenseBlizzard2014 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE89T15020121030?irpc=932 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jburns Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 http://mobile.reuter...121030?irpc=932 Four days is wishful thinking IMO. The system will probably come back up in sections. They will probably get less affected lines up in a few days but those that were fully immersed in seawater are most likely another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooralph Posted October 30, 2012 Author Share Posted October 30, 2012 I'll be thrilled if it's back online Monday, but fear it won't be. I am on the 1/2/3 and while nothing in midtown or uptown Manhattan was hit, the 3 terminus in Harlem was flooded, the 1 tunnel was breeched in South Ferry, and I think the 2/3 was flooded in Brooklyn. This week is a write-off. I am planning to walk to work Friday and maybe Thursday. Hoping they re-open schools Thursday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntenseBlizzard2014 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Four days is wishful thinking IMO. The system will probably come back up in sections. They will probably get less affected lines up in a few days but those that were fully immersed in seawater are most likely another story. Probably 3 days, but definitely not going to be 14 hours. Mainly because of the Safety check for proper flow of electricity after the water is drained out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canderson Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Hope the taxi drivers who are blatantly violating the medallion have it taken away. Course Bloomberg allowing black cars to do street pick ups opens a huge can of worms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaser25973 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 First they have to pump ALL of the salt water OUT of the subway system. I estimate 2-3 days for this. Then they have to make inspections across every single inch of track. If that takes 2-3 days, then my name is Bubba the Love Sponge. Then they have to make repairs to damaged equipment. Unclear as to how long that would take because it is not known the level of damage. Is it light or extensive? Estimate 2 days for that if it's light. If it's extensive damage, you're talking over a week. Then they have to get the rolling stock back on the tracks, conduct tests to see if the repairs were done correctly and get everything up and running. That will take 1 day. While, yes, they can roll out lines at different times, one must remember that all of the rolling stock is in one area (West Side Yard) and that in order to get those lines that work, the cars most get to them first which means going through lines that may not work. Not only is the mayor going to face criticism over telling people that Monday would be an ordinary work day and not taking this storm seriously enough, but he is also going to get major heat from people who want to get from point A to point B on the subways which carry millions of people every day. The subway system is the lifeblood of the city. Total repair time: 1-2 weeks at the MINIMUM. With that being said, they should delay the NY Marathon by a week. There's too much damage all over the city to worry about a marathon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaser25973 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Andrew Cuomo @NYGovCuomo Assessing situation in downtown Manhattan, Gov tells reporters min of 3 days, up to 2 wks to get water pumped out of PATH station #Sandy I mean come on... if it's going to take 2 WEEKS to get the water out of the PATH station, how long would it take to get it out of the entire NYC subway system???? I think Bloomberg and the MTA have to be more concerned about the getting everything up and running in time for the Holiday Season than "3-4" days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalcottWx Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 good call More proof why Nikolai is an ignorant moron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikolai Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 More proof why Nikolai is an ignorant moron Power never went out at my apartment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooralph Posted October 30, 2012 Author Share Posted October 30, 2012 Not sure if this has been posted. http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commute/2012/10/2011-report-predicted-new-yorks-subway-flooding-disaster/3748/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan76 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Not sure if this has been posted. http://www.theatlant...-disaster/3748/ I guess in the future there will be either locks/gates that can be closed to prevent this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.