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East Coast Threat/Sandy Part III


free_man

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I really wouldn't expect anything less too be honest with regards to track right now. I know the track is important down the road, however, without sufficient troughing or blocking we can forget a phase in time for this to happen...before I worry about track and such I want to at least see consistency with the evolution of the trough and how the blocking is handled.

The blocking is there for sure wiz.

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The blocking is there for sure wiz.

Yeah I think it's safe to say at this point the blocking will certainly be there...I'm also becoming more confident in the troughing amplifying enough.

In the end it's just going to come down to the timing of the trough and how quickly Sandy accelerates northward...I'm starting to find it a bit difficult to believe Sandy is going to be making much eastward progression.

One thing too is, with regards to the trough, American models always seem to be too quick with it's eastward progression and I think this is one error by the GFS right now. The NAM actually seems to handle the progression much better than the GFS does.

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Yeah I think it's safe to say at this point the blocking will certainly be there...I'm also becoming more confident in the troughing amplifying enough.

In the end it's just going to come down to the timing of the trough and how quickly Sandy accelerates northward...I'm starting to find it a bit difficult to believe Sandy is going to be making much eastward progression.

One thing too is, with regards to the trough, American models always seem to be too quick with it's eastward progression and I think this is one error by the GFS right now. The NAM actually seems to handle the progression much better than the GFS does.

In addition to the many bias that the GFS has one that it has had for ages is that likes to weaken both blocks and the semi-permanent lows and highs too quickly; in addition it also has a tendency to spin down intense cyclones to quickly.

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In addition to the many bias that the GFS has one that it has had for ages is that likes to weaken both blocks and the semi-permanent lows and highs too quickly; in addition it also has a tendency to spin down intense cyclones to quickly.

Yeah we certainly have to take into account the biases of the models first and then go from there...which is also why I've been skeptical of the phasing early scenario b/c the Euro loves to do that, however, seeing the NAM be quite similar with the main features as the Euro that has opened my eyes.

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can someone explain why a stronger storm would go out to sea. Shouldnt this also enhance downstream ridging?

There's a lot of scrambling by minds to figure out what we are actually seeing in the models. This is evidenced by the word choices in these recent discussions. As an example, that business about holding its own as it cross the geopotential gradient into the event horizon of the trough is speculative, but it's based on idea that there will be a ton of shear impacting Sandy if/when she does get captured. Likewise, could/should an intenser Sandy dump latent heat into the downstream ridge, which would feed back on steering it inward, while clad, is also speculation - it does seem just as plausible.

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Great post. I also like how you got into the phase diagram. I'm still trying to visualize asymmetrical vs symmetrical thermal gradients and how they relate to tropical and extra tropical storms but it sounds like asymmetrical means baroclinic which means thermal gradients and fronts. I'm also trying to visualize an asymmetric warm core system expanding its wind field while keeping its core. Fun things to do while I wait for the 00z GFS :P

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Great post. I also like how you got into the phase diagram. I'm still trying to visualize asymmetrical vs symmetrical thermal gradients and how they relate to tropical and extra tropical storms but it sounds like asymmetrical means baroclinic which means thermal gradients and fronts. I'm also trying to visualize an asymmetric warm core system expanding its wind field while keeping its core. Fun things to do while I wait for the 00z GFS :P

Check out the documentations tab...I didn't see that until today. :facepalm:

It explains the diagrams.

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can someone explain why a stronger storm would go out to sea. Shouldnt this also enhance downstream ridging?

Perhaps a much stronger system is more initially resistant to phasing.

But when you combine that factor with enhanced downstream ridging, I would think it would mean a later and further NORTH phase, but not a further EAST phase, since the stronger ridging downstream would prevent the storm from gaining longitude, but its resistance to phasing might help it gain more latitude. I really don't see this making a wild turn east and then a wild turn west again. I see it more resembling a just east of north track to a just west of north track...kinda like what Ryan was saying before.

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