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Medium/Long Range Discussion


tombo82685

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by the way, adam on the main page thinks this cold shot is short lived.(2,maybe 3 weeks).... looking at some of the longer range GEFS, it goes back to a pretty wretched pacific. Adam says the MJO /tropics become unfavorable after this brief window.

think of this as a reverse jan thaw.....

Two weeks would be great compared to last year! Oh and by the way is the MJO the kingpin as compared to the other teleconnections?

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Two weeks would be great compared to last year! Oh and by the way is the MJO the kingpin as compared to the other teleconnections?

MJO is one of the predictive teleconnections. The pna for example is the result of other forcing. The MJO does the forcing. It's not the be all end all by any means, but is one of the stronger medium range signals.

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by the way, adam on the main page thinks this cold shot is short lived.(2,maybe 3 weeks).... looking at some of the longer range GEFS, it goes back to a pretty wretched pacific. Adam says the MJO /tropics become unfavorable after this brief window.

think of this as a reverse jan thaw.....

I would agree if there isnt any mode conflict from ssw (so far the fluxing has been equatorally not favorable) or the aam (I'm not good with this so call me clueless). The NAEFS has been holding onto week 2 normal temps so far. But down the road the mjo outlooks have also been holding on to warmer phases mid January.

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Yep, and obviously, in all the Warm composite phases for us eastern conus folks!!

im not sure what the lag for the mjo is, but i would assume about a week or two? The next 10 days look normal to slightly below. Models still have a split flow at day ten with pv sitting over baffin island, which would keep the cold close by for some sneaky cold. Post 10 days looks like a warm up for a couple days, but it looks like the gefs are trying to shoot a decent ridge up into northeastern canada/alaska

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im not sure what the lag for the mjo is, but i would assume about a week or two? The next 10 days look normal to slightly below. Models still have a split flow at day ten with pv sitting over baffin island, which would keep the cold close by for some sneaky cold. Post 10 days looks like a warm up for a couple days, but it looks like the gefs are trying to shoot a decent ridge up into northeastern canada/alaska

We'll stay below normal/normal as long as the PV keeps a tight gradient near us. If/once it lifts out, we could get a warm shot. This might be one of those times where a positive NAO keeps us cold. Gradient style pattern as long as heights are higher along the west coast.

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ps, my thinking is that we get cold, seasonable, slight warm up from now until about mid Jan (15-20th).. from there, its a crap shoot. If we can get the NAO to rebuild negative back into greenland, and weaken the PV that is getting into place now, we could be in business.

As far as precip goes, we have potential. Split flow with active STJ will keep storms ejecting down south. Whether or not 1 can turn the coast with such sharp confluence above us is antoher story. if i were a gambling man, i'd say cold and dry.

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im not sure what the lag for the mjo is, but i would assume about a week or two? The next 10 days look normal to slightly below. Models still have a split flow at day ten with pv sitting over baffin island, which would keep the cold close by for some sneaky cold. Post 10 days looks like a warm up for a couple days, but it looks like the gefs are trying to shoot a decent ridge up into northeastern canada/alaska

I'm not sure what phase you are lagging from and then into, but phases 4 and 5 are warm and the DJF correlations with them are pretty significant. Crossing 5 into 6 and the heart of a cold pattern usually takes about two weeks. The NAEFS centered around Jan 10th just ticked warmer.

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Depends whether you believe the euro or GFS.

test8.gif

Euro ensemble mean is not as cold as the operational. Sometime down the road if the MJO outlook is correct, there's going to be an above normal stretch. The PV if that far north doesn't teleconnect well with below normal temps here. That's where the PV was last winter. Lower Hudson Bay, different story.

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0z GFS gives some hope in the long range for the return of some heights into Greenland. Displaces the PV south towards Hudson Bay, builds some nice ridging into alaska, return the -AO, -NAO.

epudyzej.jpg

Probably overdone, but its something. It doesn't show the PV sitting on the pole and locking the cold air. And while the heart of the cold would be over the mid wwest, this would put us in the gradient/boundary for storms.

0z GEFS shows the higher heights in the higher lats as well:

8a6yteda.jpg

Before that, we go through some moderation. But unlike last year, we don't look to torch. Maybe slightly above for a time, but the PV towards the Hudson Bay should build some cold air and confluence to our north.

Also, the ECM has a decent MJO wave building. Warm phases per se, but it looks healthy, and could be the start of something where the tropics start having an influence on the pattern:

rerahahu.jpg

If that wave could make it to phase, 7, it would lend creedence to the above posted GEFS map.

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0z GFS gives some hope in the long range for the return of some heights into Greenland. Displaces the PV south towards Hudson Bay, builds some nice ridging into alaska, return the -AO, -NAO.

epudyzej.jpg

Probably overdone, but its something. It doesn't show the PV sitting on the pole and locking the cold air. And while the heart of the cold would be over the mid wwest, this would put us in the gradient/boundary for storms.

0z GEFS shows the higher heights in the higher lats as well:

8a6yteda.jpg

Before that, we go through some moderation. But unlike last year, we don't look to torch. Maybe slightly above for a time, but the PV towards the Hudson Bay should build some cold air and confluence to our north.

Also, the ECM has a decent MJO wave building. Warm phases per se, but it looks healthy, and could be the start of something where the tropics start having an influence on the pattern:

rerahahu.jpg

If that wave could make it to phase, 7, it would lend creedence to the above posted GEFS map.

The problem is one of them has to be wrong. EC MJO is in warm phase 5 and would contradict the 500mb outlook the GEFS map has. If you ask me to take a WAG about which one is wrong on Jan 13th, I'd go with the GEFS.

That being said give it another week or two (the stratosphere is starting to look better, the first time I've seen polar e-p fluxing outlooked this winter), that 500mb pattern could be right (colder nonetheless), one of those delayed but not denied. Wouldn't be the first time the GFS is too fast with a pattern switch (that goes in either direction).

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