Entropy Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I don't necessarily have an issue with naming storms, the choice of names is just ridiculous. Q and Khan are known Sci-Fi references, Iago and Nemo are known as Disney characters, Gandolf is a Harry Potter reference. It's like they're going out of their way to TRY to be viral. Even if those names are references to other things, they are in the public conscious as pop culture references and nothing more. Good luck trying to convey the seriousness of a blizzard with those kind of names. Many will be stuck on the name and not the message. Actually, Gandalf is from The Lord of the Rings, not Harry Potter. Gandolf is nothing but a TWC misspelling. Somewhere, J.R.R. Tolkien is rolling in his grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Yogi the snow miracle! Seriously, this brings up way more questions then answers. Is this even worth it in the first place? it stops people from naming them ridiculous names anyways like "snowmageddon" or "snowpocolypse" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainshadow Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I want weather, too. I want to be able to forecast major hurricanes and save my clients money, but guess what, sometimes Mother Nature doesn't have it in the cards. Why hammer a square peg into a round hole when the average American would rather watch It Could Happen Tomorrow than hear a 5-day forecast of typical autumn weather? The criteria task is daunting as accuracy in forecasts beyond the usual suspects should reduce impacts and missed freezing drizzle on a Monday morning can shut down a metropolitan area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NittanyWx Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Oh joy, we're naming clippers? "Winter storm Cinderella and it's band of 4" of snow in the Poconos will only be overshadowed by the forthcoming clipper Winter Storm Hercules and the potential 5" of snow in the upper peaks of the Catskills. We'll have Jim Cantore live from Mamakating, NY to keep you ahead of this developing situation. Remember to follow the weather channel on twitter and use #Hercules to discuss this dangerous system." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieOber Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Actually, Gandalf is from The Lord of the Rings, not Harry Potter. Gandolf is nothing but a TWC misspelling. Somewhere, J.R.R. Tolkien is rolling in his grave. You know...they said on their site that "Gandolf" was from a fantasy novel written in 1896 - anyone know what that might be? I couldn't find it in a Google search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieOber Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I hate this criticism of TWC. It might have been true in the mid-00s, but it's not now. TWC has been doing top notch work with significant weather events for the last few years (snow, hurricanes, severe wx, etc). When there is nothing going on, they air entertainment programming, because it gets more eyeballs that talking about a bunch of red flag warnings in the Northern Rockies or moderate rain across the Southeast. Yes. I agree. It's a business. This upsets some here but you can't fight the simple reality - we on this board are a minute section of the public and aiming a channel at weather geeks is a sure path to failure. After all the predictions of TWC going down that I've seen on these boards, they roll right along. One thing people also need to keep in mind, TWC is NOT just a cable TV weather outlet. They are a media company. They are the number one source for weather online, provide weather pages to newspapers, content to web sites, mobile apps, and provide syndicated radio content. Calling TWC a cable network is like calling a grocery store a produce market. The criteria task is daunting as accuracy in forecasts beyond the usual suspects should reduce impacts and missed freezing drizzle on a Monday morning can shut down a metropolitan area. Yes. This was a big stumbling block when I worked at AccuWeather and we were working on a new product, a weather risk indicator that was patterned off the homeland security scale. Elliot Abrams brought up a similar thing. If the forecast is for snowshowers in Boston, and we have a "yellow" or not that serious of a danger risk, if a heavier snowshower causes icy roads at rush hour and you have a 50 car pile up that kills 20, that kills the tool's effectiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WxUSAF Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Khan will bury us alive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandymanColumbusGA Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Is this a marketing ploy? You tell me... I can't wait to be out walking about and have someone come up and ask me what Brutus is going to do. My answer will definitely be that he's going to stab Caesar in the back, causing Caesar to die before it even develops. That or have me tell people that Gandalf (Gandolf) won't let me pass. Eye of the Tiger will be played if they get to Rocky. The James Bond theme needs to be played when Q gets to show off a fancy deformation band. Yogi better be in bear country. Xerxes' snow flakes better block out the sun! Draco better not harm Harry. Nemo better happen as forecast or we may never find him! Finally, Zeus darned sure better have thundersnow! My work is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandymanColumbusGA Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 All kidding aside; this could work. IF they put out specific numbers or number ranges for specific areas of the country. Then, and only then, will I take them seriously. It's too subjective as it stands right now. A snowstorm/blizzard in the Northern Great Plains will/should have entirely different criteria than a potential snow in the Deep South. There may be times where a winter storm won't have a BIG impact for Atlanta (using as example), initially, but things change and all of a sudden you're talking about a 0.25" of ice (exaggerating) during rush hour. This winter storm is then named Iago (from Shakespeare but better known from Aladdin). Average Joes are going to be like you BLEW this!? What!? Why wasn't it named long before!? When, in reality, the local meteorologists were saying there was the possibility of a shift in the freezing line and this would be possible. This is an extreme solution, but is possible along the CAD/Wedge areas when the CAD/Wedge is forecast to be as weaker (rain forecasted) than it turns out to be (0.25" of ice). You may refute this by saying we don't know where Tropical Cyclones are going with 100% certainty. That's true, but that's why the NHC has the cone of uncertainty, to illustrate the potential track. Is TWC going to post something like this when talking about Winter Storm Iago? What if HPC has something different? Or FFC/BMX/CAE/GSP/etc are saying something different? Like AMPSU said... it would be a lot better if HPC was in charge of this so everyone would be on virtually the same page. Who knows... This could be the catalyst to set this all in motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hm8 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Decent idea....probably poor execution. "Cute" is probably the best way to put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinwood Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 #RejectedTWCNames https://twitter.com/i/#!/search/?q=%23RejectedTWCNames&src=hash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hm8 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 #RejectedTWCNames https://twitter.com/...CNames&src=hash Winter Storm Nickelback: Came from Canada and no one wants it#RejectedTWCNames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I wish it was HPC doing it, so that the community as a whole would adopt it, but I think it is a great idea. Hopefully, it catches on. They've been doing it in Europe for years and it makes communication a lot easier. How? Is there any evidence to back that up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usedtobe Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I've been seeing the "the Europeans do it" and "we do it for Hurricanes" lines getting passed around, but neither are really apples-to-apples comparisons (unless you compare European wind storms to storms near Alaska). There really is no set, uniform-ish criteria from TWC in naming these storms, so unless EVERYONE falls in line, it would be hard for the field as a whole to designate names as different companies may or may not make the subjective decision to name a storm. I do agree that I'd rather see the HPC do it than a single private company for the adoption process (if naming winter storms becomes an inevitability). I pretty much agree though without objective criteria, I think it would be a mistake for any entity to name storms. DO you only name the ones over land, There are loads of major storms over the oceans that end up with near hurricane force winds. Should they be named? Most won't impact anyone over the states. Plus a 4 inch storm right at rush hour has a bigger impact than a much bigger storm over the weekend. How would you handle that. What about Lake effect storms? obviously I'm too old for new tricks and think the naming idea is not a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
am19psu Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 How? Is there any evidence to back that up? Really? I mean, I'm no social scientist, but I'm pretty sure it's easier to talk about Hurricane Isaac than the HurricaneInTheCaribbeanThatMightComeIntoTheGulfNextWeek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I pretty much agree though without objective criteria, I think it would be a mistake for any entity to name storms. DO you only name the ones over land, There are loads of major storms over the oceans that end up with near hurricane force winds. Should they be named? Most won't impact anyone over the states. Plus a 4 inch storm right at rush hour has a bigger impact than a much bigger storm over the weekend. How would you handle that. What about Lake effect storms? obviously I'm too old for new tricks and think the naming idea is not a good one. TWC has improved markedly since the NBC buy... but this whole thing smacks of them strutting their stuff as a massive weather/news/info provider. Honestly.. who's going to take a blizzard more seriously because it has a name? The whole "easier to remember" thing is garbage too IMO. I dislike the naming of winter events as a whole tho at least there is some "fun" in doing so after a memorable one with the community involvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Really? I mean, I'm no social scientist, but I'm pretty sure it's easier to talk about Hurricane Isaac than the HurricaneInTheCaribbeanThatMightComeIntoTheGulfNextWeek That's not an apples to apples comparison. For one, when do we have 4 blizzards lurking about the country threatening to hit the megalopolis? I want evidence there is a reason to call a blizzard "Arnold" instead of "blizzard". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
am19psu Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 That's not an apples to apples comparison. For one, when do we have 4 blizzards lurking about the country threatening to hit the megalopolis? I want evidence there is a reason to call a blizzard "Arnold" instead of "blizzard". I think having two winter storms on the map at the same time is not particularly uncommon. It's not hard to think of where a northern stream disturbance is moving the through the Great Lakes, then a second southern stream storm heads toward the Apps or EC. Maybe I'm wrong here, but I don't these names only being applied to NESIS 4/5 events. That'd be like only naming major hurricanes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieOber Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 How? Is there any evidence to back that up? When I worked at AccuWx, we found via studies that names actually make people pay more attention, which is why AccuWx went with the "Tropical Rainstorm Ivan" - naming remnants. I could see the same thing applying here. We found people are pre-conditioned due to hurricanes to take a big storm with a name seriously. Of course, that isn't a blanket thing, still will have people not take it seriously. The biggest issue I see here is the subjective nature. That's a huge challenge. For example, I know Boston can get some pretty serious windex events...there was one several years ago that I recall created quite a mess. But that's a hyperlocal thing that wouldn't be named. But if 8 inches falls with high winds, people in Boston will wonder why it wasn't named. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scuddz Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 it stops people from naming them ridiculous names anyways like "snowmageddon" or "snowpocolypse" You watch your @$$ sweetie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainshadow Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I think having two winter storms on the map at the same time is not particularly uncommon. It's not hard to think of where a northern stream disturbance is moving the through the Great Lakes, then a second southern stream storm heads toward the Apps or EC. Maybe I'm wrong here, but I don't these names only being applied to NESIS 4/5 events. That'd be like only naming major hurricanes. The NWS winter storm warnings covered 5000 forecast zones last winter in a pretty down winter. It sure seems that this could turn into a monumental cherry picking process for the persons involved or there is going to be a boatload of back-up lists. Personally I'm not in favor of it, but then again I'm waiting for the myspace application I just completed to be accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2Otown_WX Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 William Morris' The Well at the World's End when I was a kid in CT one of the local stations used to name winter storms. I thought and still think it's lame. Yep. WFSB. They still do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calm_days Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I think the decision to choose this specific.... style of name... is distasteful in many ways. These storms they are talking about may very well injure people and cause people to lose their lives. One would think that NBC will use the names as well, so basically all "national outlets" will adopt the practice. Or maybe they won't... I really do not appreciate the idea of children losing a parent, a parent losing a child, a friend losing a friend, people losing their home... to something called "Caesar", "Magnus", "Triton" and I don't think I'm alone in this. There is still a lot of time for them to change it. Tropical names do not trivialize that the storm may have emotional impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil882 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I wish it was HPC doing it, so that the community as a whole would adopt it, but I think it is a great idea. Hopefully, it catches on. They've been doing it in Europe for years and it makes communication a lot easier. I agree that naming systems is a good idea just for public awareness, as long as there is a discrete nomenclature for doing so. Winter storms in my opinion are much more difficult to name than tropical cyclones because they tend to be much broder in nature and cover a larger variety of weather. In terms of tracking, there are oftentimes center relocations, and occasionally you have have bad weather occur without any sort of discrete low pressure center (overrunning for example). At what point do you name a system? When its still over the Pacific Ocean? At what point do you declare that system no more? The mid-latitude Rossby waves that lead to mid-latitude cyclogenesis oftentimes circumnavigate the globe, so in many cases there isn't a discrete beginning or ending with these systems as they amplify and de-amplify around the world. Thus, from a scientific perspective, these names will have little to no value. I hate this criticism of TWC. It might have been true in the mid-00s, but it's not now. TWC has been doing top notch work with significant weather events for the last few years (snow, hurricanes, severe wx, etc). When there is nothing going on, they air entertainment programming, because it gets more eyeballs that talking about a bunch of red flag warnings in the Northern Rockies or moderate rain across the Southeast. I agree that the Weather Channel has done a better job informing viewers of potential severe weather threats with more wall to wall coverage. However, I think this announcement is a pretty obvious publicity ploy to increase viewership. I mean honestly, the names they have selected are downright comical. I don't think their heart was in the right place with this announcement. If they were going for a more serious lean, I might have seen the value in such a naming nomenclature. From their press release: "Finally, it might even be fun and entertaining and that in itself should breed interest from our viewing public and our digital users." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewave Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 NWS Buffalo naming lake effect storms may have also been an inspiration. http://www.erh.noaa....f//lakepage.php http://press.weather.com/company-info/meteorologists/tom-niziol/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I have trouble believing this will be effective, since it will be hit-or-miss for some areas. Northern areas that get many storms will get named storms or fringes of named storms that have some impacts, but I bet some which also have similar impacts will get ignored. The focus of the naming will invariably go towards areas where storms are not as common, and in these areas every storm will probably get named. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 NWS Buffalo naming lake effect storms may have also been an inspiration. http://www.erh.noaa....f//lakepage.php Considering that the former MIC from that office now works at TWC, I'd say that it is a BIG inspiration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozart Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I pretty much agree though without objective criteria, I think it would be a mistake for any entity to name storms. DO you only name the ones over land, There are loads of major storms over the oceans that end up with near hurricane force winds. Should they be named? Most won't impact anyone over the states. Plus a 4 inch storm right at rush hour has a bigger impact than a much bigger storm over the weekend. How would you handle that. What about Lake effect storms? obviously I'm too old for new tricks and think the naming idea is not a good one. It's an especially bad idea with a private corporation taking the lead on this new practice. Public safety, economic implications, sociological/public-policy impacts, will all take a back seat to the profit motive. Science suffers. Communication suffers. Public understanding of risk suffers. Everything suffers, except the pursuit by a few of the almighty dollar. It's unforgivable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usedtobe Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Considering that the former MIC from that office now works at TWC, I'd say that it is a BIG inspiration. I thought that was a dumb idea. How do you equate a lakes effect storm with a miller a. Do you name a storm that is going to produce 2 inches in Atlantic but stays suppressed? If so, you might need lots of names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I thought that was a dumb idea. How do you equate a lakes effect storm with a miller a. Do you name a storm that is going to produce 2 inches in Atlantic but stays suppressed? If so, you might need lots of names. Exactly, they will run out of names if they really name EVERY winter storm that produces a few inches of snow. Because they happen so often in the northern plains/Great Lakes. It works better for smaller areas, but I think its also telling that a well respected TV Met, Glen Schwartz, used to name storms but has ceased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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