TWC going to name winter storms this winter

[isohume]

Yes, though I'm not sure that has much to do with my post.

[free_man]

Yes, though I'm not sure that has much to do with my post.

I'm not sure you understood my point. The point is, competing agencies "for profit" would seem to me, drive down costs and improve performance. TWC in itself, yes, would gluttonize the "warning" market and I see your point, therefore my comment regarding the danger of limited competition.

[HurricaneJosh]

A certain sector of American society-- maybe 20%-- are like wind-up dolls. In any conversation, when discussing any issue, they simply say, "Competition is good and the free market will solve the problem"-- i.e., as long as profit is the ultimate end goal, the end product will be magically perfect. It's a childish and simplistic world view. It reminds me of teenagers going through an ideological fad.

[HurricaneJosh]

Let's turn our foreign policy over to the free market. Different companies can compete to set American policy and manage our nukes-- woo hoo!!1!

[mempho]

A certain sector of American society-- maybe 20%-- are like wind-up dolls. In any conversation, when discussing any issue, they simply say, "Competition is good and the free market will solve the problem"-- i.e., as long as profit is the ultimate end goal, the end product will be magically perfect. It's a childish and simplistic world view. It reminds me of teenagers going through an ideological fad.

We don't have a free market system. Try starting your own weather channel on your local cable system, if you don't believe me.

Sent from my Milestone X 2

[mempho]

Competition is good. People do not continue to buy products that are misleading or "suck" if there are better options available.

What if there aren't any other options available because the system itself works to eliminate competition?

Sent from my Milestone X 2

[HurricaneJosh]

We don't have a free market system. Try starting your own weather channel on your local cable system, if you don't believe me.

Sent from my Milestone X 2

I think you meant this response for someone else? I was making no representations either way about this.

[AtticaFanatica]

I'm not sure you understood my point. The point is, competing agencies "for profit" would seem to me, drive down costs and improve performance. TWC in itself, yes, would gluttonize the "warning" market and I see your point, therefore my comment regarding the danger of limited competition.

There are many areas of the country where it is extremely unlikely a corporation could ever turn a profit in issuing warnings just like there are certain areas of the country where FedEx and UPS couldn't turn a profit in regularly delivering mail. Warnings are a serious enough issue for the general population that I think most feel that they shouldn't be put in the position that areas are treated unequally (in terms of forecasters, investments in radars, etc.).

[AtticaFanatica]

I remember someone from AccuWeather saying they should be able to issue warnings, but I think that's generally the exception rather than the rule. I think most private companies understand the multiple dilemmas that would be created by privatizing the warning system. Maybe I'm wrong though.

[free_man]

There are many areas of the country where it is extremely unlikely a corporation could ever turn a profit in issuing warnings just like there are certain areas of the country where FedEx and UPS couldn't turn a profit in regularly delivering mail. Warnings are a serious enough issue for the general population that I think most feel that they shouldn't be put in the position that areas are treated unequally (in terms of forecasters, investments in radars, etc.).

That is why UPS and FedEx do not deliver to all locales, since there is only money to lose.

[free_man]

Let's turn our foreign policy over to the free market. Different companies can compete to set American policy and manage our nukes-- woo hoo!!1!

That would be more successful than what we have now. As-is, we have a few hand-picked giant corps, in bed with gov't, getting extremely rich off taxpayer money and the military industrial complex.

[AtticaFanatica]

That is why UPS and FedEx do not deliver to all locales, since there is only money to lose.

Right.

[HurricaneJosh]

That is why UPS and FedEx do not deliver to all locales, since there is only money to lose.

Thus perfectly illustrating the point here-- that if the weather were privatized, less-populated markets would be under-served in life-threatening weather emergencies, since there just isn't a lot of money in those markets.

Let the rural folks die because warning them isn't profitable. Free markets yay!!

[Ellinwood]

I remember someone from AccuWeather saying they should be able to issue warnings, but I think that's generally the exception rather than the rule. I think most private companies understand the multiple dilemmas that would be created by privatizing the warning system. Maybe I'm wrong though.

While based on paying clients, AccuWeather actually does issue its own warnings. Several years ago, AccuWeather bought WeatherData (headed by Mike Smith), and WeatherData is now known as AccuWeather Enterprise Solutions. Paying clients (mostly/all other companies) can get products like tornado warnings and high wind warnings through this part of AccuWeather. It's not the same as issuing nationwide warnings for the public like the NWS, but I'm just saying that it's there. I agree that warnings for the public should be solely in the hands of the NWS.

[ORH_wxman]

Thus perfectly illustrating the point here-- that if the weather were privatized, less-populated markets would be under-served in life-threatening weather emergencies, since there just isn't a lot of money in those markets.

Let the rural folks die because warning them isn't profitable. Free markets yay!!

+1

And this is why it shouldn't happen.

[free_man]

Right.

That does NOT mean no one delivers there.

[HurricaneJosh]

+1

And this is why it shouldn't happen.

Thanks.

That does NOT mean no one delivers there.

OK, so what are you suggesting? That people in the Dakotas get severe weather warnings only three days a week, since the "market" doesn't support 24/7 coverage?

I feel like I'm having this discussion with a child. I used to think you were cool and normal-- not I'm just like, WTF? It's like you went off the deep end.

[somethingfunny]

Congratulations on being successfully trolled, everybody! Private enterprise versus public organizations is a very productive discussion and every time I see it come up, I always see significant progress towards the solution of all our world's problems by the 300th or 400th page of repetitive back-and-forth bickering. We'll have both Communism and Wall Street and Al Qaeda and the Westboro Church and those damn kids who ride their bikes in my yard defeated in no time if we keep this discussion going.

I wish The Weather Channel had been the one doing the trolling, but they appear to be serious. What discussions went down at the NWA meeting regarding all of this?

My opinion is, if you're going to follow through with this harebrained scheme, you have to start with a set criteria, and that has to be the issuance of a Winter Storm Watch or Warning by the NWS. The NWS already takes things like "impact", "location", "time of the ****ing day", etc., into account when they issue watches/warnings/advisories. If the storm was good enough for a Winter Storm Warning in North Dakota and Minnesota, it should have been good enough for a name. Any argument otherwise is basically an argument against naming tropical storms like Alberto or Nadine that don't ever get Jim Cantore onto a beach.

[HurricaneJosh]

Congratulations on being successfully trolled, everybody! Private enterprise versus public organizations is a very productive discussion and every time I see it come up, I always see significant progress towards the solution of all our world's problems by the 300th or 400th page of repetitive back-and-forth bickering. We'll have both Communism and Wall Street and Al Qaeda and the Westboro Church and those damn kids who ride their bikes in my yard defeated in no time if we keep this discussion going.

I wish The Weather Channel had been the one doing the trolling, but they appear to be serious. What discussions went down at the NWA meeting regarding all of this?

My opinion is, if you're going to follow through with this harebrained scheme, you have to start with a set criteria, and that has to be the issuance of a Winter Storm Watch or Warning by the NWS. The NWS already takes things like "impact", "location", "time of the ****ing day", etc., into account when they issue watches/warnings/advisories. If the storm was good enough for a Winter Storm Warning in North Dakota and Minnesota, it should have been good enough for a name. Any argument otherwise is basically an argument against naming tropical storms like Alberto or Nadine that don't ever get Jim Cantore onto a beach.

Maybe you don't know what "trolling" is?

[somethingfunny]

Maybe you don't know what "trolling" is?

I've always thought of trolling as being when someone inserts a giant irrelevant derail into a discussion and kills the original topic.

[HurricaneJosh]

I've always thought of trolling as being when someone inserts a giant irrelevant derail into a discussion and kills the original topic.

I think it's when one participant takes a fake position which they might not really even believe, just to incite conflict and watch everyone flip out.

I don't think that's the case here. I believe both sides sincerely believe what they're saying. You may feel it's a silly debate or not relevant, but I believe the participants are earnest.

Also, I would argue this topic is quite relevant-- because the central question TWC's move raises is: is it appropriate for a private enterprise to get into naming/classifying weather systems, or should that be left to government agencies?

[famartin]

I'm SO glad I didn't read the last two pages until now

[somethingfunny]

I think it's when one participant takes a fake position which they might not really even believe, just to incite conflict and watch everyone flip out.

I don't think that's the case here. I believe both sides sincerely believe what they're saying. You may feel it's a silly debate or not relevant, but I believe the participants are earnest.

Also, I would argue this topic is quite relevant-- because the central question TWC's move raises is: is it appropriate for a private enterprise to get into naming/classifying weather systems, or should that be left to government agencies?

Ah yeah, I was referring to that guy (whoever he was) back a few pages who literally admitted he was trolling with a fake position and kept it up for over a page of argument, and the discussion's been within the paradigm he set since then.

Of course classifying weather systems should be left to government agencies. I don't think there's a single person who knows anything about anything who would argue otherwise. That's why I find it to be an irrelevant derail - it's like arguing about whether the sky is blue on clear sunny days. Someone might troll with a "it has no color but it absorbs every color except blue" answer, but that's just a troll.

I'd rather be talking about what ought to be done about this awful scheme of TWC's.

[HurricaneJosh]

Ah yeah, I was referring to that guy (whoever he was) back a few pages who literally admitted he was trolling with a fake position and kept it up for over a page of argument, and the discussion's been within the paradigm he set since then.

Of course classifying weather systems should be left to government agencies. I don't think there's a single person who knows anything about anything who would argue otherwise. That's why I find it to be an irrelevant derail - it's like arguing about whether the sky is blue on clear sunny days. Someone might troll with a "it has no color but it absorbs every color except blue" answer, but that's just a troll.

I'd rather be talking about what ought to be done about this awful scheme of TWC's.

OK, I agree with you on the issue-- that classifying/naming should be left to the NWS. So we're on the same page Re: this issue.

But even if one dude is trolling, there are others in this discussion who do feel-- crazily enough-- that it's totally cool for system naming/classification to be turned over to private enterprise, because... well, you know-- private enterprise is the magic elixir for all of society's challenges.

[somethingfunny]

That's insanity and I hope that another company like Accuweather or somebody else decides to use competing names.

[HurricaneJosh]

That's insanity and I hope that another company like Accuweather or somebody else decides to use competing names.

That would be pretty funny to see that. We were talking about it earlier in this thread-- how AccuWeather very well could do that-- and either way, the NWS is not going to take TWC's lead and use their names or anyone else's-- so it would become one big mess, with the different entities using different names or no names.

I just don't see why AccuWeather-- a competing company with some market share-- would just lay down and let TWC run the show here.

I think TWC is OK-- I don't dislike them the way I strongly dislike AccuWeather-- but I do feel they overreached with this.

[somethingfunny]

I think TWC is OK-- I don't dislike them the way I strongly dislike AccuWeather-- but I do feel they overreached with this.

I feel like TWC jumped the shark on this one. Up until now, they were about effectively disseminating the information produced by the NWS; a profit-driven communication partner of the government. Sure the prime-time entertainment series are obnoxious, but their core mission and methods remained the same. Even Torcon parrots the SPC outlooks, but with a more refined way of communicating the same information. Now they're essentially telling the public that they don't need to pay attention to an NWS Winter Storm Warning unless the storm has been declared name-worthy by TWC. Bad bad bad bad bad.

Was there anything stopping various other agencies from deciding to name the Northern Plains storm Athena last week? Put out a bunch of blog posts and Twitter posts with the hashtag #athena, so anybody searching online for information about the "real" TWC-named Athena would find all sorts of conflicting information? (and give another name to the TWC-named Athena) It would be a terrible thing to do, in bad faith and dangerous to the mission of clear communication - but what TWC is doing is already all of those things.

[HurricaneJosh]

I feel like TWC jumped the shark on this one. Up until now, they were about effectively disseminating the information produced by the NWS; a profit-driven communication partner of the government. Sure the prime-time entertainment series are obnoxious, but their core mission and methods remained the same. Even Torcon parrots the SPC outlooks, but with a more refined way of communicating the same information. Now they're essentially telling the public that they don't need to pay attention to an NWS Winter Storm Warning unless the storm has been declared name-worthy by TWC. Bad bad bad bad bad.

Was there anything stopping various other agencies from deciding to name the Northern Plains storm Athena last week? Put out a bunch of blog posts and Twitter posts with the hashtag #athena, so anybody searching online for information about the "real" TWC-named Athena would find all sorts of conflicting information? (and give another name to the TWC-named Athena) It would be a terrible thing to do, in bad faith and dangerous to the mission of clear communication - but what TWC is doing is already all of those things.

Good question. AccuWeather-- or any other entities with reach and/or market share-- are really in the position to play havoc with this whole plan. I'll bet they're weighing their options.

[PottercountyWXobserver]

I apologise for my trolling behavior earlier and I normally don't do it, so I'm sorry. I'm usually a decent poster on the weather and off-topic topics but I got a little out of control here. For my real stance, I totally agree with pretty much everything Josh has said thus far. And Bozart really? 24hrs was justified considering I hardly ever do it on purpose and I don't bother many people like ever.

[HurricaneJosh]

I apologise for my trolling behavior earlier and I normally don't do it, so I'm sorry. I'm usually a decent poster on the weather and off-topic topics but I got a little out of control here. For my real stance, I totally agree with pretty much everything Josh has said thus far. And Bozart really? 24hrs was justified considering I hardly ever do it on purpose and I don't bother many people like ever.

Omg. Naughty naughty. Cannot believe you did that.