isohume Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I don't think so. I doubt TWC is considering it, but if they did...Doswell wouldn't mind seeing his names in lights for double his salary I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baroclinic_instability Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Idk..money talks and I'm sure Doswell's ego would enjoy it. I doubt TWC is considering it, but if they did...Doswell wouldn't mind seeing his names in lights for double his salary I'm sure. That would never happen. Doswell would support mainstream religion before he supported mainstream media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PottercountyWXobserver Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Waaa Waaa Waaa TWC makes more than government so we take out our frustrations out at a private weather/media companies waa waa waaaa. The hatred for the weather channel and other private entities is funny. If you don't like what they are doing and how they go about doing their business stop caring. Positive or negative attention like this only feeds their ratings. I honestly don't see any reason to hate on them, so what they want to do something entertaining. If people can't understand the difference between the almighty government forecast and the private weather forecast then maybe people are dumber than I thought they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 They're probably dumber than you thought they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I don't know what "TWC makes more than government" even means but that sounds like an interesting theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isohume Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 That would never happen. Doswell would support mainstream religion before he supported mainstream media. Idk...Doswell is no spring chicken anymore. He probably does hate the media more than the NWS, but man does he love himself and the media could make him into a king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PottercountyWXobserver Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I don't know what "TWC makes more than government" even means but that sounds like an interesting theory. I'm really not sure if some members associated with the TWC or any other private business mets make more money than the governmental mets, but jealousy definitely runs amuck in here. Alot of people think the almight government weather should be nationalised, which also adds to the jealousy of the private weather industry. I honestly don't care what the private weather industry does, and the people that only want government to take care of people need to stop coddling the masses into thinking they can't understand the difference between government and private weather forecast. So what, if people are to dumb to understand the difference than let darwinism take over. Yes the government weather department does and outstanding job at giving us great weather forecast, but they need to stop thinking they should be the only ones that have power to dictate what and where weather updates and warnings get issued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinwood Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Waaa Waaa Waaa TWC makes more than government so we take out our frustrations out at a private weather/media companies waa waa waaaa. The hatred for the weather channel and other private entities is funny. If you don't like what they are doing and how they go about doing their business stop caring. Positive or negative attention like this only feeds their ratings. I honestly don't see any reason to hate on them, so what they want to do something entertaining. If people can't understand the difference between the almighty government forecast and the private weather forecast then maybe people are dumber than I thought they were. I'm really not sure if some members associated with the TWC or any other private business mets make more money than the governmental mets, but jealousy definitely runs amuck in here. Alot of people think the almight government weather should be nationalised, which also adds to the jealousy of the private weather industry. I honestly don't care what the private weather industry does, and the people that only want government to take care of people need to stop coddling the masses into thinking they can't understand the difference between government and private weather forecast. So what, if people are to dumb to understand the difference than let darwinism take over. Yes the government weather department does and outstanding job at giving us great weather forecast, but they need to stop thinking they should be the only ones that have power to dictate what and where weather updates and warnings get issued. If this is what you truly think, than you have completely missed the point of the discussion. FWIW, I'm in the private industry, I am not really a competitor with TWC, and I couldn't care less about what the people at TWC make. It's not about jealously, it's about science (and it's limitations) and communication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PottercountyWXobserver Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 If this is what you truly think, than you have completely missed the point of the discussion. FWIW, I'm in the private industry, I am not really a competitor with TWC, and I couldn't care less about what the people at TWC make. It's not about jealously, it's about science (and it's limitations) and communication. It's honestly not all that I think, but there is an underlying hatred for the private side of the weather even if it isn't explicit, but it sure is implied. Others maybe not have a direct competitor with the TWC but they still hate for the sake of hating. How can it not be somewhat related to science? They have outright said it was going to be related to the NEISS scale and other thresholds, how is that not satisfying? Weenies are just hurt that its not purely a strength scale instead of a population based scale. I kind of wish they also had a pure strength and purely meteorological standard too for naming storms. If it were up to me, population would be of lower weighting. I really want the NWS to help with the process so we can have some kind of winter weather scale for storms like we measure tropical systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinwood Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 It's honestly not all that I think, but there is an underlying hatred for the private side of the weather even if it isn't explicit, but it sure is implied. Others maybe not have a direct competitor with the TWC but they still hate for the sake of hating. How can it not be somewhat related to science? They have outright said it was going to be related to the NEISS scale and other thresholds, how is that not satisfying? Weenies are just hurt that its not purely a strength scale instead of a population based scale. I kind of wish they also had a pure strength and purely meteorological standard too for naming storms. If it were up to me, population would be of lower weighting. I really want the NWS to help with the process so we can have some kind of winter weather scale for storms like we measure tropical systems. Of course it's related to science, but what we have been disputing is how solid the science is (objective vs. subjective naming) and how well naming storms will verify (naming storms that are still forming that may not ultimately meet the criteria to name a storm). According to their naming criteria, somewhere like NYC could see 4" of snow between 7-9pm and not be named or could receive the same snow between 4-6pm and get a name. God help them if they're trying to get those kind of specifics 2-3 days in advance... hopefully those kind of situations would be limited strictly to the 0-12 hour window. In order for their naming criteria to be fairly solid, they'll need specific criteria for individual cities... that's a lot of work. As of right now, the overall decision on whether or not a stormed based on the combined factors is fairly hand-wavy. I'll be more than happy to rescind those parts of my argument once TWC finally does release specific criteria. I'm sure there's a handful of people in this thread who are whining and complaining just because of their hatred of TWC, but that doesn't lessen the argument that the legitimate naysayers are making, and you shouldn't dismiss the argument based on the bias of a select few. Then of course you have the names themselves, but a different story. EDIT: And then, what exactly does TWC qualify as impactful? That's a fairly ambiguous term that, in the end, keeps the naming criteria entirely subjective unless they have the data and have done the research to determine what thresholds actually count as being impactful. Even then some people will disagree as to what qualifies as impactful or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I'm really not sure if some members associated with the TWC or any other private business mets make more money than the governmental mets, but jealousy definitely runs amuck in here. Alot of people think the almight government weather should be nationalised, which also adds to the jealousy of the private weather industry. I honestly don't care what the private weather industry does, and the people that only want government to take care of people need to stop coddling the masses into thinking they can't understand the difference between government and private weather forecast. So what, if people are to dumb to understand the difference than let darwinism take over. Yes the government weather department does and outstanding job at giving us great weather forecast, but they need to stop thinking they should be the only ones that have power to dictate what and where weather updates and warnings get issued. Yeah, this is just completely off base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Yeah, this is just completely off base. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Ugh, this old hatred/suspicion of government... Even Ed Lizard, who's pretty right-wing, admits that the government does some things better-- and one of these is weather warnings. I'm sorry, but there's just going to be a natural and inevitable tension between 1) the desire to inform and 2) the desire to excite (in order to drive viewership, clicks, and revenue). The NWS doesn't need to drive ratings-- so what you're getting is just a sober, no-frills analysis aimed at saving lives and property-- no dramatic music, no fancy fly-in graphics, no anchor-chick with big boobs and teased hair. So at the end of the day, I'm just always going to listen to them-- yes, the government agency-- over any entertainment empire. This is not about "hating" private weather-- it's about who I fundamentally trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Ugh, this old hatred/suspicion of government... Even Ed Lizard, who's pretty right-wing, admits that the government does some things better-- and one of these is weather warnings. I'm sorry, but there's just going to be a natural and inevitable tension between 1) the desire to inform and 2) the desire to excite (in order to drive viewership, clicks, and revenue). The NWS doesn't need to drive ratings-- so what you're getting is just a sober, no-frills analysis aimed at saving lives and property-- no dramatic music, no fancy fly-in graphics, no anchor-chick with big boobs and teased hair. So at the end of the day, I'm just always going to trust them-- yes, the government agency-- over any entertainment empire. This is not about "hating" private weather-- it's about who I fundamentally trust. It also helps that the NWS is more accurate than TWC anyway...and I am not affliated with either. The NWS I find does a much better job than than TV sans some excellent TV mets. (i.e. like Cantore back when forecasted and gave analysis and our local Harvey Leonard). But aside from the usual exceptions, the NWS consistently outperforms the TV people here in the winter which of course is my bread and butter for an ice-p***sy like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PottercountyWXobserver Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Ugh, this old hatred/suspicion of government... Even Ed Lizard, who's pretty right-wing, admits that the government does some things better-- and one of these is weather warnings. I'm sorry, but there's just going to be a natural and inevitable tension between 1) the desire to inform and 2) the desire to excite (in order to drive viewership, clicks, and revenue). The NWS doesn't need to drive ratings-- so what you're getting is just a sober, no-frills analysis aimed at saving lives and property-- no dramatic music, no fancy fly-in graphics, no anchor-chick with big boobs and teased hair. So at the end of the day, I'm just always going to listen to them-- yes, the government agency-- over any entertainment empire. This is not about "hating" private weather-- it's about who I fundamentally trust. I'm not suspicious of the government at all! I'm prolly one of the most left leaning individual in here. All I'm saying is let the private weather entities do their thing, science or no science. Of course TWC is about revenue and entertainment, that is why I like them. Of course its about fundamental trust, which is why I'd rather believe the NWS 100% over anyone else out there. But all I'm saying is, there is alot of hatred towards privatised weather. If the TWC wants to issue there own warnings, storm names, other product or any other private company wants to do so, then so be it. At the end of the day, it gives the viewers, consumers, or average day joe more options to choose from to make educated guesses for what the weather might or may not do. If people get confused because they can't understand the difference between a NWS product and a TWC or anyother private product, then oh well. You can't coddle ignorant people forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I'm not suspicious of the government at all! I'm prolly one of the most left leaning individual in here. All I'm saying is let the private weather intities do their thing, science or no science. Of course TWC is about revenue and entertainment, that is why I like them. Of course its about fundamental trust, which is why I'd rather believe the NWS 100% over anyone else out there. But all I'm saying is, there is alot of hatred towards privatised weather. If the TWC wants to issue there own warnings, storm names, other product or any other private company wants to do so, then so be it. At the end of the day, it gives the viewers, consumers, or average day joe more options to choose from to make educated guesses for what the weather might or may do. If people get confused because they can't understand the difference between a NWS product and a TWC or anyother private product, then oh well. Having private entities give warnings and such is a pretty slippery slope. Especially since all the TWC warnings have traditionally in the past been NWS warnings. Now if people see a "new TWC" issuing their own stuff independent of the NWS, are they supposed to know the difference? You just admitted that skill doesn't matter....so in that sense we have less skillful people issuing warnings to a general public that was used to getting NWS warnings on TWC. I'm not a big fan of overblowing things, but this is at least a moderate problem. NWS has a pretty decent skill floor in their meteorologists (i.e. their worst meteorologists are a lot better than the worst meteorologists at most places)...so now we are getting warnings from an entity that is less skillful on the whole. That is not exactly how we improve public awareness IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I'm not suspicious of the government at all! I'm prolly one of the most left leaning individual in here. All I'm saying is let the private weather entities do their thing, science or no science. Of course TWC is about revenue and entertainment, that is why I like them. Of course its about fundamental trust, which is why I'd rather believe the NWS 100% over anyone else out there. But all I'm saying is, there is alot of hatred towards privatised weather. If the TWC wants to issue there own warnings, storm names, other product or any other private company wants to do so, then so be it. At the end of the day, it gives the viewers, consumers, or average day joe more options to choose from to make educated guesses for what the weather might or may not do. If people get confused because they can't understand the difference between a NWS product and a TWC or anyother private product, then oh well. You can't coddle ignorant people forever. You think TWC should be able to issue warnings? You think that's a good thing for society? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I mean, you've got to be kidding me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 You think TWC should be able to issue warnings? You think that's a good thing for society? Really? If TWC trained their mets like the NWS, it would be a good thing. Unfortunately (and you know this obviously)....they don't. The skill level difference is fairly obvious. If it was all Jim Cantores, it would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PottercountyWXobserver Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Having private entities give warnings and such is a pretty slippery slope. Especially since all the TWC warnings have traditionally in the past been NWS warnings. Now if people see a "new TWC" issuing their own stuff independent of the NWS, are they supposed to know the difference? You just admitted that skill doesn't matter....so in that sense we have less skillful people issuing warnings to a general public that was used to getting NWS warnings on TWC. I'm not a big fan of overblowing things, but this is at least a moderate problem. NWS has a pretty decent skill floor in their meteorologists (i.e. their worst meteorologists are a lot better than the worst meteorologists at most places)...so now we are getting warnings from an entity that is less skillful on the whole. That is not exactly how we improve public awareness IMHO. Why can't private entities do whatever they want with their products? It might be a pretty slippery slope for those without a brain who can't think for themselves. Skill does matter, which is why I'm going to trust the NWS most of the time compared to others, because I research and understand the difference between forecasts for the most part. I'm not about improving public awareness, I honestly couldn't care. I want others to be capable of issuing whatever they want which provides more options and opinions from other sources to compare forecasts to the NWS. If the TWC or other said private entities weather products aren't verifying, more than likely people will catch on and just follow the NWS products anyways. If anything, private entities will catch and warn somewhat lesser "stregthened" storms and warn the public because its not that the NWS didn't see these events, but it didn't reach certain thresholds that are normally warned. If people get desensitised, again oh well. If someone wants to pay for a product they think will help their weather awareness, then once again good for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 If TWC trained their mets like the NWS, it would be a good thing. Unfortunately (and you know this obviously)....they don't. The skill level difference is fairly obvious. If it was all Jim Cantores, it would work. More than the skill level though is the idea of having warnings come from an entity that is inherently reliant on profits, which is, for fairly obvious reasons, a horrible idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PottercountyWXobserver Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 You think TWC should be able to issue warnings? You think that's a good thing for society? Really? You make it seem like it would be like the world was falling! Of course it may confuse some people. On the radio this is prolly what would happen. Said private company warning** SO and SO has issued a severe weather warning for SO and SO county. Then maybe a certain time later on the radio the NWS might issue a warning. The NWS has issued a severe weather warning for SO and SO county. The order of which it happens may vary, but people are going to hear and be like like. Sooooo SO and SO said a warning huhmmm? well I didn't hear the NWS issued anything so I'm not to worried about it, but in the back of their minds they will have some kind of awareness at least of something threatening is happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Why can't private entities do whatever they want with their products? It might be a pretty slippery slope for those without a brain who can't think for themselves. Skill does matter, which is why I'm going to trust the NWS most of the time compared to others, because I research and understand the difference between forecasts for the most part. I'm not about improving public awareness, I honestly couldn't care. I want others to be capable of issuing whatever they want which provides more options and opinions from other sources to compare forecasts to the NWS. If the TWC or other said private entities weather products aren't verifying, more than likely people will catch on and just follow the NWS products anyways. If anything, private entities will catch and warn somewhat lesser "stregthened" storms and warn the public because its not that the NWS didn't see these events, but it didn't reach certain thresholds that are normally warned. If people get desensitised, again oh well. If someone wants to pay for a product they think will help their weather awareness, then once again good for them. Specialized products are great, I'm just talking about warnings, where people's lives are often at stake. To mitigate public confusion and avoid the possibility that profits necessitate efficient use of resources, which in turn necessitates unequal treatment to various parts of the country, that type of info really needs to come from a centralized source. I think even most private companies would concede this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 You make it seem like it would be like the world was falling! Of course it may confuse some people. On the radio this is prolly what would happen. Said private company warning** SO and SO has issued a severe weather warning for SO and SO county. Then maybe a certain time later on the radio the NWS might issue a warning. The NWS has issued a severe weather warning for SO and SO county. The order of which it happens may vary, but people are going to hear and be like like. Sooooo SO and SO said a warning huhmmm? well I didn't hear the NWS issued anything so I'm not to worried about it, but in the back of their minds they will have some kind of awareness at least of something threatening is happening. Sounds like an awesome system. Sign me up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 More than the skill level though is the idea of having warnings come from an entity that is inherently reliant on profits, which is, for fairly obvious reasons, a horrible idea. Yes the financial aspect of it sounds horrible too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PottercountyWXobserver Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 More than the skill level though is the idea of having warnings come from an entity that is inherently reliant on profits, which is, for fairly obvious reasons, a horrible idea. ohhh waa waaa skill level waa waa having warnings from waa waa entity and waa waa profits. People are smart enough to differentiate between who is calling out the warnings, and if they were sure would at least look it up on their smart phones or whatever. The more competition the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocoAko Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 ohhh waa waaa skill level waa waa having warnings from waa waa entity and waa waa profits. People are smart enough to differentiate between who is calling out the warnings, and if they were sure would at least look it up on their smart phones or whatever. The more competition the better. Uh.. no. You sound like you're perfectly content with risking people's lives just to give X private company the opportunity to issue their own warnings. Either that or you overestimate the average person. The immature sarcasm is noted, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 When I got to work on VORTEX 2, TWC were embedded with us and I thought did a great job on stories about the instruments and hard science being performed while also providing live updates. It was a great example of public-private promotion where all benefitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 You make it seem like it would be like the world was falling! Of course it may confuse some people. On the radio this is prolly what would happen. Said private company warning** SO and SO has issued a severe weather warning for SO and SO county. Then maybe a certain time later on the radio the NWS might issue a warning. The NWS has issued a severe weather warning for SO and SO county. The order of which it happens may vary, but people are going to hear and be like like. Sooooo SO and SO said a warning huhmmm? well I didn't hear the NWS issued anything so I'm not to worried about it, but in the back of their minds they will have some kind of awareness at least of something threatening is happening. I'm all for capitalism...I'm as fiscally republican as anyone....but this is a terrible idea. Why the hell would we want to cause such confusion? I mean there is a limit to warning people about something that is not consumer-related. Weather is something everyone needs to watch out for. We don't have several police agencies watching the streets at night...we should have a trust-worthy source who has well-trained competent employees when it comes to weather warnings. I'm totally for issuing forecasts that are better than the NWS (what do you think I do) that are more specialized or focus on a particular variable. But public warnings shouldn't be spewed all over the place....because if they were, we would get the cry wolf syndrome. NWS already has enough trouble with that as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFanatica Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Did you know you can put "waa waa" in front of any argument you make and it automatically invalidates it? Great tool to have to raise the level of discourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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