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Mid-Atlantic 2012 Fall Foliage / leaf discussion/tracking

stormitecture

By stormitecture,
in Mid Atlantic

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ThePhotoGuy

ThePhotoGuy

Posted
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I always say I am going to get out and take some fall foliage photos but I never do but this year will be different. I am thinking about doing a couple day trips to Catoctin Mountains, Emmitsburg, and Patapsco Valley State Park. I am also thinking about going to Lancaster County, PA; haven’t been up that way in years. I am also thinking about making a trip to Chincoteague National Wildlife Refuge and making a stop at Assateague, never been that way in the fall.

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terpguy

terpguy

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No change down here in the valley as of now, but I'm guessing after these upcoming chilly nights I should be able to see some change on the upper ridges.

FTR- While chilly nights are necessary to trap sugars in the leaves (to make the reds), contrary to popular opinion, Jack Frost has nothing what so ever to do with a pretty Autumn. A percentage of TV "weather people" approaching 100 has perpetrated this myth.

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EastCoast NPZ

EastCoast NPZ

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FTR- While chilly nights are necessary to trap sugars in the leaves (to make the reds), contrary to popular opinion, Jack Frost has nothing what so ever to do with a pretty Autumn. A percentage of TV "weather people" approaching 100 has perpetrated this myth.

Every year this debate comes up. There is little doubt in my mind that temperature plays a part in the process. There is a reason why the season varies a couple of weeks either way of its mean peak. The only variable can be the weather. This is also the reason why the change varies with elevation. To claim that this process is only dependent on the waning of incoming solar energy is to ignore the anectodal evidence to the contrary.

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terpguy

terpguy

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Every year this debate comes up. There is little doubt in my mind that temperature plays a part in the process. There is a reason why the season varies a couple of weeks either way of its mean peak. The only variable can be the weather. This is also the reason why the change varies with elevation. To claim that this process is only dependent on the waning of incoming solar energy is to ignore the anectodal evidence to the contrary.

First, it's anecdotal.

Second, nothing I wrote indicated the day length was or was not the cause of abscission of leaves. It IS, however, a Zeitgeber. There is no debate. Please read this article that I wrote in the 80s for the ACS. It is republished here in a NSF Curriculum Guide. The Editor took some liberties in regard to the chemistry of leaf orange. Please contact me for the corrections.

http://dev.nsta.org/ssc/pdf/v4-0933s.pdf

Thank you

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EastCoast NPZ

EastCoast NPZ

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First, it's anecdotal.

Second, nothing I wrote indicated the day length was or was not the cause of abscission of leaves. It IS, however, a Zeitgeber. There is no debate. Please read this article that I wrote in the 80s for the ACS. It is republished here in a NSF Curriculum Guide. The Editor took some liberties in regard to the chemistry of leaf orange. Please contact me for the corrections.

http://dev.nsta.org/...df/v4-0933s.pdf

Thank you

Apparently I mis-understood the intent of your original post then. My apologies. I did read your column, and enjoyed it. I didn't know that anthocyanins - not already present in the sugar maples - could be manufactured from the trapped sugar in the leaves. I'd always assumed that all three pigments were present. Good stuff.

That being said, the conditions needed for robust colors, have been met out here this year. It should be a great season.

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terpguy

terpguy

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Apparently I mis-understood the intent of your original post then. My apologies. I did read your column, and enjoyed it. I didn't know that anthocyanins - not already present in the sugar maples - could be manufactured from the trapped sugar in the leaves. I'd always assumed that all three pigments were present. Good stuff.

That being said, the conditions needed for robust colors, have been met out here this year. It should be a great season.

Thanks for reading. The jury is till out here in Northern Maryland. My dogwoods started to change on 1 August due to the mini-drought. The larger trees hopefully will be OK.

The main editorial errors in the article have to do with where the orange comes from. They do NOT come from beta-carotene (carrots, pumpkins) but rather the anthocyanins created (from the leftover sugar) and the xanthophylls (yellow) already there. Just like you make orange in Art class from red and yellow.

Hope your autumn is colorful.

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EastCoast NPZ

EastCoast NPZ

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Thanks for reading. The jury is till out here in Northern Maryland. My dogwoods started to change on 1 August due to the mini-drought. The larger trees hopefully will be OK.

The main editorial errors in the article have to do with where the orange comes from. They do NOT come from beta-carotene (carrots, pumpkins) but rather the anthocyanins created (from the leftover sugar) and the xanthophylls (yellow) already there. Just like you make orange in Art class from red and yellow.

Hope your autumn is colorful.

So, is there no beta-carotene present at all, leaving (still only) 3 pigments including the xanithophyliss? Is this true for all trees?

Hope that the drought up your way doesn't dampen the colors for you. Happy Fall!

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Redmorninglight

Redmorninglight

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I realize that I am outside of your bio-region a bit, but sometimes I wonder where we in our area belong? At times we relate to the Philadelphia region, but more often I associate our climate area with the DelMarVa. Anyway, I appreciate all the insight you Mid-Atlantic folks offer as I do not post very often, but do read your threads frequently. I am happy to report these cooler nights hae given us a nice splash of purple from the black gum trees and even a smidge of red from the red maples. The salt marshes have generally turned a nice amber hue and the Salicornia sp. (marsh glasswort) has turned a sharp red too. Our peak is usually not until almost Halloween so we have a ways to go.

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terpguy

terpguy

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So, is there no beta-carotene present at all, leaving (still only) 3 pigments including the xanithophyliss? Is this true for all trees?

Hope that the drought up your way doesn't dampen the colors for you. Happy Fall!

There are three main groups of pigments in plants:

1) Chlorophylls

2) Carotenoids, which include

- beta-carotene

-xanthophyll

-lycopene [causes the bright red of tomatoes and peppers]

3) Anthocyanins- there are 100s, and cause rose (and leaf) red, to the purple in grapes [Malvidin]

Some people get bad headaches, or behave obnoxiously, after drinking red wine. This is due to an allegy to malvidin.

Leaves contain chlorophyll, xanthophyll, and the sugar decays to the anthocyanins in the autumn.

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terpguy

terpguy

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I realize that I am outside of your bio-region a bit, but sometimes I wonder where we in our area belong? At times we relate to the Philadelphia region, but more often I associate our climate area with the DelMarVa. Anyway, I appreciate all the insight you Mid-Atlantic folks offer as I do not post very often, but do read your threads frequently. I am happy to report these cooler nights hae given us a nice splash of purple from the black gum trees and even a smidge of red from the red maples. The salt marshes have generally turned a nice amber hue and the Salicornia sp. (marsh glasswort) has turned a sharp red too. Our peak is usually not until almost Halloween so we have a ways to go.

Once again (see above) the cool nights are but one necessity to get a colorful autumn. They do not cause the colors. The lower temperatures preclude sugar made in the leaves from traveling to the roots at night. It's the sugar that makes the color.

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clskinsfan

clskinsfan

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Posted

Really just starting out here in the northern Shen. Valley. Probably another month or so before peak. If you have the time this fall take the drive out and run Skyline Drive. It is really worth the trip from DC and NOVA. If you are down towards the south. Run Route 64 from Richmond to Staunton. Another beautiful ride. This is my favorite time of year. Perfect weather and just gorgeous foliage.

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EastCoast NPZ

EastCoast NPZ

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Visited Peaks of Otter in Bedford Co this weekend. Saturday's weather was mostly cloudy with low cloudiness that obscured nearly everything, so we went to a festival in the city of Bedford. For anyone who's never been there, it's a beautiful little city with lots of small-town charm. All that and only minutes from the BR parkway and Peaks of Otter.

Stayed at the lodge on Sat night. Got up on a frosty morning Sunday and watched the sunrise over Lake Abbot. Highs in mid-60s at about 2500 ft. Perfect. You just couldn't imagine nicer setting and fall weather. We got really lucky. Accomadations are not much, but in that setting, who cares? Hiked to the summit of Sharp Top (elev 3875). Several rocky outrcops at the top from which a 360 degree view is possible. Simply breath-taking. Colors are showing nicely. By next weekend it'll be gorgeous. There wasn't much more color up there than there is at home. Many more maples down here I guess which show their colors earlier. Drove north on the Parkway for about 50 miles just enjoying the weather and the scenery. Stopped and hiked to Cascade Falls (mile marker 83). Parts are rocky and steep, but isn't bad. Carrying a child in a backpack made it a litte more challenging, but well worth the effort.

I've tried attaching pics, but the attachment app keeps telling me my files are too large. Not sure what else I can do.

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Kmlwx

Kmlwx

Posted
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Visited Peaks of Otter in Bedford Co this weekend. Saturday's weather was mostly cloudy with low cloudiness that obscured nearly everything, so we went to a festival in the city of Bedford. For anyone who's never been there, it's a beautiful little city with lots of small-town charm. All that and only minutes from the BR parkway and Peaks of Otter.

Stayed at the lodge on Sat night. Got up on a frosty morning Sunday and watched the sunrise over Lake Abbot. Highs in mid-60s at about 2500 ft. Perfect. You just couldn't imagine nicer setting and fall weather. We got really lucky. Accomadations are not much, but in that setting, who cares? Hiked to the summit of Sharp Top (elev 3875). Several rocky outrcops at the top from which a 360 degree view is possible. Simply breath-taking. Colors are showing nicely. By next weekend it'll be gorgeous. There wasn't much more color up there than there is at home. Many more maples down here I guess which show their colors earlier. Drove north on the Parkway for about 50 miles just enjoying the weather and the scenery. Stopped and hiked to Cascade Falls (mile marker 83). Parts are rocky and steep, but isn't bad. Carrying a child in a backpack made it a litte more challenging, but well worth the effort.

I've tried attaching pics, but the attachment app keeps telling me my files are too large. Not sure what else I can do.

Upload them to an image hosting site like Imgur (make an account so you retain the right to delete). Then link them here - or downsize them even just in paint (saving the originals of course).

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Disc

Disc

Posted
Posted

Visited Peaks of Otter in Bedford Co this weekend. Saturdays weather was mostly cloudy with low cloudiness that obscured nearly everything, so we went to a festival in the city of Bedford. For anyone who's never been there, it's a beautiful little city with lots of small-town charm. All that and only minutes from the BR parkway and Peaks of Otter.

Stayed at the lodge on Sat night. Got up on a frosty morning Sunday and watched the sunrise over Lake Abbot. Highs in mid-60s at about 2500 ft. Perfect. You just couldn't imagine nicer setting and fall weather. We got really lucky. Accomadations are not much, but in that setting, who cares? Hiked to the summit of Sharp Top (elev 3875). Several rocky outrcops at the top from which a 360 degree view is possible. Simply breath-taking. Colors are showing nicely. By next weekend it'll be gorgeous. There wasn't much more color up there than there is at home. Many more maples down here I guess which show their colors earlier. Drove north on the Parkway for about 50 miles just enjoying the weather and the scenery. Stopped and hiked to Cascade Falls (mile marker 83). Parts are rocky and steep, but isn't bad. Carrying a child in a backpack made it a litte more challenging, but well worth the effort.

I've tried attaching pics, but the attachment app keeps telling me my files are too large. Not sure what else I can do.

I thoroughly agree Sharp Top has an awesome view over looking the lodge and the lake. With the fall colors added in, I could imagine it was great. I live only within an hour or so of all the locations you mentioned, but it's been years since I've been to the Peaks of Otter.

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stormitecture

stormitecture

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Took the scenic route to Leesburg on Monday......River Rd to 28 to Point of Rocks and south on 15. Really didn't notice much in the way of colors.

Tips and such are changing, but yes, not really sure it is worth an outing just yet. Can't wait though. I suspect, even though it only has been a few days since that post, a tad more visual change is being seen. I tend to remember back when I was working in the Air Rights building in Bethesda, looking out, the change was fairly quick.
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EastCoast NPZ

EastCoast NPZ

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Thanks for the help, Klmwx!

Visited Peaks of Otter in Bedford Co this weekend. Saturday's weather was mostly cloudy with low cloudiness that obscured nearly everything, so we went to a festival in the city of Bedford. For anyone who's never been there, it's a beautiful little city with lots of small-town charm. All that and only minutes from the BR parkway and Peaks of Otter.

Stayed at the lodge on Sat night. Got up on a frosty morning Sunday and watched the sunrise over Lake Abbot. Highs in mid-60s at about 2500 ft. Perfect. You just couldn't imagine nicer setting and fall weather. We got really lucky. Accomadations are not much, but in that setting, who cares? Hiked to the summit of Sharp Top (elev 3875). Several rocky outrcops at the top from which a 360 degree view is possible. Simply breath-taking. Colors are showing nicely. By next weekend it'll be gorgeous. There wasn't much more color up there than there is at home. Many more maples down here I guess which show their colors earlier. Drove north on the Parkway for about 50 miles just enjoying the weather and the scenery. Stopped and hiked to Cascade Falls (mile marker 83). Parts are rocky and steep, but isn't bad. Carrying a child in a backpack made it a litte more challenging, but well worth the effort.

Sunrise over Lake Abbott:

bODTe.jpg[/img]

Walking bridge at the lodge with Sharp Top in the background:

rt9fM.jpg[/img]

View of Sharp Top from the lake shore as the first rays of sunlight bathe the Peak.

xj82B.jpg[/img]

Random photos around the lodge:

SOugD.jpg[/img]

n7CiX.jpg[/img]

eAOkc.jpg[/img]

U3UVs.jpg[/img]

View from the summit of Sharp Top. Below is Lake Abbott and the Peaks of Otter Lodge.

The camera just doesn't do the shot justice. There was noticeably more foliage color to the naked eye:

TjzbJ.jpg[/img]

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Kmlwx

Kmlwx

Posted
Posted

Thanks for the help, Klmwx!

Visited Peaks of Otter in Bedford Co this weekend. Saturday's weather was mostly cloudy with low cloudiness that obscured nearly everything, so we went to a festival in the city of Bedford. For anyone who's never been there, it's a beautiful little city with lots of small-town charm. All that and only minutes from the BR parkway and Peaks of Otter.

Stayed at the lodge on Sat night. Got up on a frosty morning Sunday and watched the sunrise over Lake Abbot. Highs in mid-60s at about 2500 ft. Perfect. You just couldn't imagine nicer setting and fall weather. We got really lucky. Accomadations are not much, but in that setting, who cares? Hiked to the summit of Sharp Top (elev 3875). Several rocky outrcops at the top from which a 360 degree view is possible. Simply breath-taking. Colors are showing nicely. By next weekend it'll be gorgeous. There wasn't much more color up there than there is at home. Many more maples down here I guess which show their colors earlier. Drove north on the Parkway for about 50 miles just enjoying the weather and the scenery. Stopped and hiked to Cascade Falls (mile marker 83). Parts are rocky and steep, but isn't bad. Carrying a child in a backpack made it a litte more challenging, but well worth the effort.

Sunrise over Lake Abbott:

Looks like the code got messed up but I visited the links individually! Great shots you got!!! :thumbsup:

I have friends that probably don't even know places like this are so close - they "live" in the suburbs and city lol

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EastCoast NPZ

EastCoast NPZ

Posted
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Looks like the code got messed up but I visited the links individually! Great shots you got!!! :thumbsup:

I have friends that probably don't even know places like this are so close - they "live" in the suburbs and city lol

Thanks. I really need a real camera because I have an interest in naturescape photography. Just never seem to have the time.

I don't know what else to do to get these photos to display. I've tried every link option I can think of.

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Ellinwood

Ellinwood

Posted
Posted

Thanks. I really need a real camera because I have an interest in naturescape photography. Just never seem to have the time.

I don't know what else to do to get these photos to display. I've tried every link option I can think of.

Just use

[img=IMAGEURL]

example: [img=http://i.imgur.com/eAOkc.jpg]

The links you currently have are to the site, and not to the actual image itself. It looks like you'll be okay if you just add .jpg to the URL. You can also right click on the image and select "Copy Image Location" and then paste that as the URL to go between the img tags.

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EastCoast NPZ

EastCoast NPZ

Posted
Posted

Just use

[img=IMAGEURL]

example: [img=http://i.imgur.com/eAOkc.jpg]

The links you currently have are to the site, and not to the actual image itself. It looks like you'll be okay if you just add .jpg to the URL. You can also right click on the image and select "Copy Image Location" and then paste that as the URL to go between the img tags.

Thank you. At least now I have a link.

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