Green Movement and Jobs

[PottercountyWXobserver]

How can someone join the movement when there are hardly any options to choose from for a career. I have been looking all over the place for an alternative energy job, and it is more difficult that I thought it would be. It is sad really, because in order to make a push for greener technologies, people need to have jobs or be given the chance to contribute to the green movement more easily. I would do anything to change my career to green energy, but I don't even know where to start. List any info on the economic side of going green and the movement in general. What do you do, and do you think you could do more?

[Jonger]

How can someone join the movement when there are hardly any options to choose from for a career. I have been looking all over the place for an alternative energy job, and it is more difficult that I thought it would be. It is sad really, because in order to make a push for greener technologies, people need to have jobs or be given the chance to contribute to the green movement more easily. I would do anything to change my career to green energy, but I don't even know where to start. List any info on the economic side of going green and the movement in general. What do you do, and do you think you could do more?

Step 1: Buy a electrically powered HIGH temp oven.

Step 2: Cut down some old trees

Step 3: Heat the oven to 500C

Step 4: Place logs inside and allow pyrolysis to convert the wood to Biochar

Step 5: Bury the blacked logs

Step 6: Replant tree onto the same spot you cut the tree down from.

Step 7: Convince the public to embrace doing this on a billionth scale

Step 8: No more Co2... Please stop at 280ppm.

[Jonger]

Battery Development would be a serious venture. Chemistry?

[dabize]

Managed to talk my daughter out of an Ed. program and into doing a natural sciences major.

She chose plant biology, which I think will be excellent for employment in an AGW-dominated world.

Come to think of it, there will be demand for people trained in all of the natural sciences (bio, chem, physics), plus all sorts of engineering areas.

[TerryM]

Master flint knapping.

More seriously:

Plumbing - for solar heating apps / hydroponic gardening / evaporative cooling systems

Electrician - photovoltaic, windmill & micro hydro design, install & maintenance

Refrigeration - Keeping food edible will require refrigeration - possibly solar/ammonia absorption systems

Welding/Brazing - Not particularly green, but useful if things break.

HVAC probably teaches enough of all the above to get by on.

Sailing (wind powered) - for fun and profit if the transportation system collapses.

As things start to unravel, those able to repair instead of replace will prosper (relatively)

Terry

[dabize]

Master flint knapping.

More seriously:

Plumbing - for solar heating apps / hydroponic gardening / evaporative cooling systems

Electrician - photovoltaic, windmill & micro hydro design, install & maintenance

Refrigeration - Keeping food edible will require refrigeration - possibly solar/ammonia absorption systems

Welding/Brazing - Not particularly green, but useful if things break.

HVAC probably teaches enough of all the above to get by on.

Sailing (wind powered) - for fun and profit if the transportation system collapses.

As things start to unravel, those able to repair instead of replace will prosper (relatively)

Terry

I can see that my mindset was impossibly elitist.

Done....... Zombie shelter construction will be big in some areas

[donsutherland1]

How can someone join the movement when there are hardly any options to choose from for a career. I have been looking all over the place for an alternative energy job, and it is more difficult that I thought it would be. It is sad really, because in order to make a push for greener technologies, people need to have jobs or be given the chance to contribute to the green movement more easily. I would do anything to change my career to green energy, but I don't even know where to start. List any info on the economic side of going green and the movement in general. What do you do, and do you think you could do more?

The post-fossil fuel industry (excepting nuclear power) is still largely in its infancy. Like many disruptive technologies (those that go on to replace existing technologies), the value-added is relatively low compared to conventional energy sources. In other words, production costs are higher and profitability is lower. Innovation, improvement, and expansion (leading to economies of scale) will have to continue to occur until the industry gains sufficient mass to become a large job creator (if one is looking to focus on the business or production end of things).

Ultimately, on account of fossil fuels being a finite resource, there will need to be a shift. The timing of the point where the shift needs to be underway to the extent where fossil fuel production begins to fall increasingly short of energy demand remains uncertain (much can still be extracted and not all reserves are known). Otherwise, the world's societies won't be able to maintain access to a reliable supply of energy and that development would have broad adverse economic and societal consequences.

Prior to that point, there are strong geopolitical and climate arguments for trying to hasten a transition, but the economic realities constitute a barrier to a rapid transition. Fiscal challenges facing developed economies also limit possible policy solutions typical for infant industries e.g., subsidies. On the other hand, those challenges might, in theory, make a carbon tax more palatable as a deficit reduction measure (but it could be regressive, creating additional issues). Such a tax could have the potential to begin to shift the energy landscape toward a post-fossil fuel future, but not all countries are likely to adopt such a measure. Near-term adoption in the U.S. is unlikely. Unless there is broad public support for the idea, it won't be sustainable and neither the President nor Governor Romney are likely to take political risks to pursue such a tax in that environment.

Rapid economic growth remains imperative for developing countries, so early adoption of new energy technologies there will likely occur largely when conventional sources are inadequate to meet their growing appetite for energy (when global prices begin to rise as global demand grows faster than production capacity, creating incentives to seek alternative sources of energy). Rapid economic growth is essential for those countries to narrow their gap in living standards with the developed world and, in some states, critical to their maintaining political stability. Breakthroughs in post-fossil fuel technologies that raise their relative value-added (in comparison to fossil fuels) and demand-driven increases in fossil fuel prices will likely be required before mass adoption begins to take place in the developing countries (including but not limited to China and India).

[Jonger]

I'm on my phone right now, so I'll just post what I read last night without a link.

The north slope is running out of oil.

[nflwxman]

The post-fossil fuel industry (excepting nuclear power) is still largely in its infancy. Like many disruptive technologies (those that go on to replace existing technologies), the value-added is relatively low compared to conventional energy sources. In other words, production costs are higher and profitability is lower. Innovation, improvement, and expansion (leading to economies of scale) will have to continue to occur until the industry gains sufficient mass to become a large job creator (if one is looking to focus on the business or production end of things).

Ultimately, on account of fossil fuels being a finite resource, there will need to be a shift. The timing of the point where the shift needs to be underway to the extent where fossil fuel production begins to fall increasingly short of energy demand remains uncertain (much can still be extracted and not all reserves are known). Otherwise, the world's societies won't be able to maintain access to a reliable supply of energy and that development would have broad adverse economic and societal consequences.

Prior to that point, there are strong geopolitical and climate arguments for trying to hasten a transition, but the economic realities constitute a barrier to a rapid transition. Fiscal challenges facing developed economies also limit possible policy solutions typical for infant industries e.g., subsidies. On the other hand, those challenges might, in theory, make a carbon tax more palatable as a deficit reduction measure (but it could be regressive, creating additional issues). Such a tax could have the potential to begin to shift the energy landscape toward a post-fossil fuel future, but not all countries are likely to adopt such a measure. Near-term adoption in the U.S. is unlikely. Unless there is broad public support for the idea, it won't be sustainable and neither the President nor Governor Romney are likely to take political risks to pursue such a tax in that environment.

Rapid economic growth remains imperative for developing countries, so early adoption of new energy technologies there will likely occur largely when conventional sources are inadequate to meet their growing appetite for energy (when global prices begin to rise as global demand grows faster than production capacity, creating incentives to seek alternative sources of energy). Rapid economic growth is essential for those countries to narrow their gap in living standards with the developed world and, in some states, critical to their maintaining political stability. Breakthroughs in post-fossil fuel technologies that raise their relative value-added (in comparison to fossil fuels) and demand-driven increases in fossil fuel prices will likely be required before mass adoption begins to take place in the developing countries (including but not limited to China and India).

Great writeup, Don. As an insider to wind energy devolopment, I've been shocked at the pace of technological advancements in my own field. Most utility scale wind turbine models are seeing a doubling of efficiency over their earlier counterparts (given the same resource) over the past 5 years. General Electric, Siemens, and Vestas have all been leading the charge to make wind energy more competitive than traditional fossil fuels. At the moment, I believe wind has the edge over new nukes or coal plants.

(The below article is prior to the natural gas boom)

http://nuclearfissionary.com/2010/04/02/comparing-energy-costs-of-nuclear-coal-gas-wind-and-solar/

[dabize]

Don,

I think the great challenge will be to get the message out to people that "growth" is no longer the route to happiness.

Obviously you are right about the barrier, but that really amounts to a test of power between FF corporate interests and those of the people at large.

If we are lucky, post fossil fuel industries will pitch in to help with the transition and may speed the identification, development and adoption of non CO2 generating energy. However, this will be futile without a change in mind-set about growth as an inherent goal.

[TerryM]

As an insider to wind energy development

I have a longtime friend who retired to a very small hobby farm in Texas and has purchased a wind turbine to supplement his power. Are such micro installations economically viable, and how do they compare to solar on such small scales.

Terry

BTW

I always thought it would be fun to copperplate the hull of a sailboat, throw empty beer cans into a metal mesh net over the stern, then reap the power generated as the aluminum succumbed to electrolysis while plying the open seas. Need the energy source to keep the libations chilled.

[PottercountyWXobserver]

Great writeup, Don. As an insider to wind energy devolopment, I've been shocked at the pace of technological advancements in my own field. Most utility scale wind turbine models are seeing a doubling of efficiency over their earlier counterparts (given the same resource) over the past 5 years. General Electric, Siemens, and Vestas have all been leading the charge to make wind energy more competitive than traditional fossil fuels. At the moment, I believe wind has the edge over new nukes or coal plants.

(The below article is prior to the natural gas boom)

http://nuclearfissio...wind-and-solar/

Since you are an insider to wind energy. Do you know of any good companies that are looking for field workers? I choose a fossil fuel career earlier in my life before the green ecofascist in me came to be. I don't have the money to go back to school now, but wouldn't mind starting with a field job say planning wind farm sites, or anything really.

[PhillipS]

Since you are an insider to wind energy. Do you know of any good companies that are looking for field workers? I choose a fossil fuel career earlier in my life before the green ecofascist in me came to be. I don't have the money to go back to school now, but wouldn't mind starting with a field job say planning wind farm sites, or anything really.

Here in Texas at least, a number of wind farm projects are on hold pending the renewal of the Production Tax Credit (PTC) - which Congress is sitting on until after the election. This affects every tier of the wind industry, from the companies that install turbines, or build turbines, or supply any of the ancillary systems. Even the companies that ship the massive turbine blades are feeling the pinch. A company just a few miles down the road from me that builds ancillary components for wind farms pulled most of the job listings off of their website because they don't want to hire staff just to have to fire them in a few months if Romney wins and the GOP puts a toe-tag on the PTC.

For anyone interested, there is a lot of informatoin on the PTC issue available on-line. Here is one breif video from a turbine blade manufacturer in Iowa

[dabize]

I always thought it would be fun to copperplate the hull of a sailboat, throw empty beer cans into a metal mesh net over the stern, then reap the power generated as the aluminum succumbed to electrolysis while plying the open seas. Need the energy source to keep the libations chilled.

You could sell it as a "fuel cell assist" and get SBIR funding for it.......so long as you left out the beer part.

Ever read AC Clarke's short story "The Man who Ploughed the Sea" (I think that was the title) about the guy who mined REEs, gold and uranium by sailing his yacht around and purifying the salts from the passing seawater?

[PottercountyWXobserver]

Here in Texas at least, a number of wind farm projects are on hold pending the renewal of the Production Tax Credit (PTC) - which Congress is sitting on until after the election. This affects every tier of the wind industry, from the companies that install turbines, or build turbines, or supply any of the ancillary systems. Even the companies that ship the massive turbine blades are feeling the pinch. A company just a few miles down the road from me that builds ancillary components for wind farms pulled most of the job listings off of their website because they don't want to hire staff just to have to fire them in a few months if Romney wins and the GOP puts a toe-tag on the PTC.

For anyone interested, there is a lot of informatoin on the PTC issue available on-line. Here is one breif video from a turbine blade manufacturer in Iowa

Tis a sad day for humanity when we can't even have green technology because of politics..ugghhghghgh. The GOP makes me gag cause of this. There is ZERO reason to rely on fossil fuels. We have the technology for the most part, but you have some sick individuals that would rather go for the other green

[hazwoper]

How can someone join the movement when there are hardly any options to choose from for a career. I have been looking all over the place for an alternative energy job, and it is more difficult that I thought it would be. It is sad really, because in order to make a push for greener technologies, people need to have jobs or be given the chance to contribute to the green movement more easily. I would do anything to change my career to green energy, but I don't even know where to start. List any info on the economic side of going green and the movement in general. What do you do, and do you think you could do more?

What is your degree in? What work have you been doing recently. Some background about you would be helpful. I manage upfront permitting for utility scale wind projects for most of the major developers. If you can provide some more info about your experience, one might be able to answer your question better.

[PottercountyWXobserver]

What is your degree in? What work have you been doing recently. Some background about you would be helpful. I manage upfront permitting for utility scale wind projects for most of the major developers. If you can provide some more info about your experience, one might be able to answer your question better.

My degree is in Petroleum Technology, its very similar to geology. I went for that degree for all the wrong reasons, I choose the money instead of following my principles and now I'm miserable. I'm currently working for an oil company, but as soon as I can get a job in either solar or wind, I will be running out of that oilfield faster than the wind blowing the turbines. Most jobs before the one I have now have been mainly part time because I've been in college. I am 23 years old and willing to travel anywhere whenever needed. I was previously majoring in meteorology but switched for the money reason. I now realize money isn't going to make me happy and I want to do whatever is in my power to help our economy and society become as green as possible. I'm just hoping someone gives me the chance to prove that I can do great things with the passion I have. I have most of the hard physical sciences and maths. I'm willing to do an entry level position for the minimum as long as I could at least feel a honerable purpose again If you need any other information, please feel free to PM me.

[Vergent]

My degree is in Petroleum Technology, its very similar to geology. I went for that degree for all the wrong reasons, I choose the money instead of following my principles and now I'm miserable. I'm currently working for an oil company, but as soon as I can get a job in either solar or wind, I will be running out of that oilfield faster than the wind blowing the turbines. Most jobs before the one I have now have been mainly part time because I've been in college. I am 23 years old and willing to travel anywhere whenever needed. I was previously majoring in meteorology but switched for the money reason. I now realize money isn't going to make me happy and I want to do whatever is in my power to help our economy and society become as green as possible. I'm just hoping someone gives me the chance to prove that I can do great things with the passion I have. I have most of the hard physical sciences and maths. I'm willing to do an entry level position for the minimum as long as I could at least feel a honerable purpose again If you need any other information, please feel free to PM me.

You are probably fully qualified for geothermal.

http://www.thomasnet.com/products/geothermal-equipment-systems-96008636-1.html

[dabize]

My degree is in Petroleum Technology, its very similar to geology. I went for that degree for all the wrong reasons, I choose the money instead of following my principles and now I'm miserable. I'm currently working for an oil company, but as soon as I can get a job in either solar or wind, I will be running out of that oilfield faster than the wind blowing the turbines. Most jobs before the one I have now have been mainly part time because I've been in college. I am 23 years old and willing to travel anywhere whenever needed. I was previously majoring in meteorology but switched for the money reason. I now realize money isn't going to make me happy and I want to do whatever is in my power to help our economy and society become as green as possible. I'm just hoping someone gives me the chance to prove that I can do great things with the passion I have. I have most of the hard physical sciences and maths. I'm willing to do an entry level position for the minimum as long as I could at least feel a honerable purpose again If you need any other information, please feel free to PM me.

Looks like you should know about the nature of the political forces driving "skepticism" all right.

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/9496#comments_top

Ever visit this site? A lot of kindred spirits, and an interesting conversation........

One thing that really needs to get out is your point about the UNNECESSITY (is that a word?) of subsidizing/relying on fossil fuels going forward.

Of course there will be a phase in period for renewables - but proper pricing of the overall cost of FFs vs RFs would make the latter economically competitive (even advantageous) now. This is especially true of PV technology.

The other big thing is the need to understand that "growth" is a thing of the past. Not only is it not possible any more - it is severely undesirable.

Perpetual economic growth has been accurately described as "the natural philosophy of a cancer cell".

[hazwoper]

My degree is in Petroleum Technology, its very similar to geology. I went for that degree for all the wrong reasons, I choose the money instead of following my principles and now I'm miserable. I'm currently working for an oil company, but as soon as I can get a job in either solar or wind, I will be running out of that oilfield faster than the wind blowing the turbines. Most jobs before the one I have now have been mainly part time because I've been in college. I am 23 years old and willing to travel anywhere whenever needed. I was previously majoring in meteorology but switched for the money reason. I now realize money isn't going to make me happy and I want to do whatever is in my power to help our economy and society become as green as possible. I'm just hoping someone gives me the chance to prove that I can do great things with the passion I have. I have most of the hard physical sciences and maths. I'm willing to do an entry level position for the minimum as long as I could at least feel a honerable purpose again If you need any other information, please feel free to PM me.

There is a lot of uncertainty in the renewables industry these days. The wind energy production tax credit (PTC) is set to expire at the end of the year and with that in mind many employers have been slashing jobs or at least not considering hiring at the moment. It was fairly easy just 2-3 years ago to get into the industry, but with so many qualified folks looking for jobs it can be pretty tough to get in these days. In an election year extending the PTC is tough, but many feel after the election it will be extended for a year during lame duck sessions. A 1 year extension may not be enough to open up a lot of jobs, but a multi year extension very well could IMO. At this point, I believe a long term extension with a gradual phase out is warranted and would allow for job growth and a set time when the industry knows it will need to go it alone so to speak.

Regardless of what happens, wind and other renewables are here to stay, but it remains to be seen in what capacity. Keep your eyes and ears open and do what you can to keep the dems in office. Crazy to think that a republican introduce tax credit is now being heralded by the dems and shuned by the republicans. I despise politics, I really do.

[TerryM]

PotterC

I've thought about you post and think your path should be based on where you see things heading within the next 30-40 years. If infrastructure holds up, the power grid proves robust and things remain more or less as they are, planning/management positions will be desirable. If things get really bad and infrastructure implodes the hands on types that can build solar stills & generators from scrap will ascend. Either path makes a comparable entry level wage, but the future is still a blank slate.

If I were your age I'd probably try to work both sides until some of the unknowns are known. I'd try to position myself for rapid advancement within a hierarchical system, but with skills that would have value should the hierarchy collapse.

I'm not advocating "survivalist" training, just learning skills that will be marketable regardless of how the future unfolds. There was a documentary the other night that followed some bankers thrown permanently out of work in 2008 - it wasn't pretty.

Terry

[dabize]

There was a documentary the other night that followed some bankers thrown permanently out of work in 2008 - it wasn't pretty.

Terry

Try me......