Antarctic Sea Ice Extent

[Geos]

Antarctica SIA did not hit a record high, but it hit a record high for late in the season.

 

[ORH_wxman]

Antarctica SIA did not hit a record high, but it hit a record high for late in the season.

 

100413CT_ant.png

 

With CT SIA back up and running now, we are able to look at the values and 2013 came close to a record high area...within 90k on CT SIA. It ended up finishing 3rd for highest max behind 2007 and 2012.

[Jonger]

Looks like the melt season is delayed by a couple weeks, the record high might be hit in what should be well into the melt season.

[ORH_wxman]

Looks like the melt season is delayed by a couple weeks, the record high might be hit in what should be well into the melt season.

 

 

We are well off the 2013 max now...as I mentioned above, 2013 finished with the 3rd highest max for CT SIA down in the anatarctic

 

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/antarctic.sea.ice.interactive.html

[Geos]

Incredible, another small jump in the last few days in Antarctic SIA.

 

[LakeEffectKing]

Incredible, another small jump in the last few days in Antarctic SIA.

 

102713ant_seaiceCT.png

Well, if anything, there certainly is some albedo help in the mid spring down there...hopefully that'll carry over as the sun gets higher in angle for a more significant impact.

[Geos]

Still running above every other year. Nearest to 1980 and 1985.

 

[Geos]

Still riding high at the top of the pack.

 

[Jonger]

I have to give kudos to Dr. Jeff Masters for posting this, I was almost sure he wasn't going to mention it.

 

This has been going around the internets today.

 

I know this isn't about Sea Ice, but its the only Antarctic thread we have,

 

 

Brrrr! -135.8°F Measured at Earth's New Coldest Spot

 

 

 

http://classic.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2596

[LakeEffectKing]

 

I have to give kudos to Dr. Jeff Masters for posting this, I was almost sure he wasn't going to mention it.

 

This has been going around the internets today.

 

I know this isn't about Sea Ice, but its the only Antarctic thread we have,

 

 

Brrrr! -135.8°F Measured at Earth's New Coldest Spot

 

 

 

http://classic.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2596

Come on....'it's perfectly consistent with a planet that has a fever.'......err....'more extremes'

[The_Global_Warmer]

Its not Jeff Masters fault cold records are not as expansive and deep as warm ones now.

 

The extra ice is definitely acting as a negative feedback

[sokolow]

http://classic.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2596Come on....'it's perfectly consistent with a planet that has a fever.'......err....'more extremes'

..?

Its not startling considering what the team was up to:

Scambos and his team spotted the record low temperatures while working on a related study on unusual cracks on East Antarctica's ice surface that he suspects are several hundred years old.

"The cracks are probably thermal cracks -- the temperature gets so low in winter that the upper layer of the snow actually shrinks to the point that the surface cracks in order to accommodate the cold and the reduction in volume," Scambos said. "That led us to wonder what the temperature range was. So, we started hunting for the coldest places using data from three satellite sensors."

Whole story is kind of neat:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/12/131210111039.htm

But I'm sure as heck glad I won't have to be the one setting up the stations!

[A-L-E-K]

Thanks for the explanation sokolow

[AvantHiatus]

In the event that you did not notice, the Antarctic is increasingly unconnected to the global heat transport system.

 

This is probably related to additional fresh water input from glacier melt into the Southern Ocean and shutting off heat exchange via salinity equalization and faster wind speeds pushing ice out into the ocean caused by the intense Polar Vortex. Under these conditions, it will continue to cool and have limited impact on the global climate.

 

There is a jet stream that runs along the Antarctic Circumpolar Current that keeps the Antarctic locked in within a small cold micro-climate, essentially there is no heat exchange because the winds travel in a circle around the Antarctic. Whereas the Arctic still has a decent and growing amount of heat exchange.

 

More importantly the difference between sea ice extent in the summer and winter is massive going from almost 16km to 2km within 4 months. The ice does not have enough staying power to influence global climate and the recent increases range from 1-3% above average in any give year.

 

Unfortunately it's more fuel for deniers and it's obvious that they have little understanding on how the world actually works and not just in climate.

[A-L-E-K]

In the event that you did not notice, the Antarctic is increasingly unconnected to the global heat transport system.

 

This is probably related to additional fresh water input from glacier melt into the Southern Ocean and shutting off heat exchange via salinity equalization and faster wind speeds pushing ice out into the ocean caused by the intense Polar Vortex. Under these conditions, it will continue to cool and have limited impact on the global climate.

 

There is a jet stream that runs along the Antarctic Circumpolar Current that keeps the Antarctic locked in within a small cold micro-climate, essentially there is no heat exchange because the winds travel in a circle around the Antarctic. Whereas the Arctic still has a decent and growing amount of heat exchange.

 

More importantly the difference between sea ice extent in the summer and winter is massive going from almost 16km to 2km within 4 months. The ice does not have enough staying power to influence global climate and the recent increases range from 1-3% above average in any give year.

 

Unfortunately it's more fuel for deniers and it's obvious that they have little understanding on how the world actually works and not just in climate.

 

 

good post

[Jonger]

In the event that you did not notice, the Antarctic is increasingly unconnected to the global heat transport system.

 

This is probably related to additional fresh water input from glacier melt into the Southern Ocean and shutting off heat exchange via salinity equalization and faster wind speeds pushing ice out into the ocean caused by the intense Polar Vortex. Under these conditions, it will continue to cool and have limited impact on the global climate.

 

There is a jet stream that runs along the Antarctic Circumpolar Current that keeps the Antarctic locked in within a small cold micro-climate, essentially there is no heat exchange because the winds travel in a circle around the Antarctic. Whereas the Arctic still has a decent and growing amount of heat exchange.

 

More importantly the difference between sea ice extent in the summer and winter is massive going from almost 16km to 2km within 4 months. The ice does not have enough staying power to influence global climate and the recent increases range from 1-3% above average in any give year.

 

Unfortunately it's more fuel for deniers and it's obvious that they have little understanding on how the world actually works and not just in climate.

 

I stopped right there.

[TerryM]

http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Observing_the_Earth/CryoSat/Antarctica_s_ice_loss_on_the_rise

[skierinvermont]

I stopped right there.

 

Why? Because you have evidence that what he said is false, or because you don't like the conclusion?

[Jonger]

Why? Because you have evidence that what he said is false, or because you don't like the conclusion?

 

There are been posts after posts after post and posts about ice loss and climate change in Antarctica, and now I'm supposed to give the thumbs up to a poster saying Antarctic is disconnected from the global heat exchange and its in a cooling phase?

 

You used to be more impartial, that's vanished in the past 6 months. What happened? This is ridiculous. 

[skierinvermont]

There are been posts after posts after post and posts about ice loss and climate change in Antarctica, and now I'm supposed to give the thumbs up to a poster saying Antarctic is disconnected from the global heat exchange and its in a cooling phase?

 

You used to be more impartial, that's vanished in the past 6 months. What happened? This is ridiculous. 

 

There has not been a lot of climate change in the antarctic the last 50 years and a strengthening AAO is the logical mainstream reason for it. 

 

I have not read about dramatic climate change in the antarctic. Perhaps you can point me to these posts and we can correct them. 

[Jonger]

There has not been a lot of climate change in the antarctic the last 50 years and a strengthening AAO is the logical mainstream reason for it. 

 

I have not read about dramatic climate change in the antarctic. Perhaps you can point me to these posts and we can correct them. 

 

Care to address Terry's post?

[skierinvermont]

Care to address Terry's post?

 

The loss of ice is still a relatively slow recent phenomenon and is not remotely comparable to the large temperature increases and loss of land and sea ice that have been occurring in the arctic for the last century and especially rapidly in recent decades.

 

Nevertheless recent mass loss from the West Antarctic ice sheet would seem pertinent to a thread on antarctic climate change. 

[bluewave]

 Liu and Curry have a great recent paper explaining how this process works.

 

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/08/09/1003336107.full.pdf?with-ds=yes

 

 

Abstract

The observed sea surface temperature in the Southern Ocean shows a substantial warming trend for the second half of the 20th century. Associated with the warming, there has been an enhanced atmospheric hydrological cycle in the Southern Ocean that results in an increase of the Antarctic sea ice for the past three decades through the reduced upward ocean heat transport and increased snowfall. The simulated sea surface temperature variability from two global coupled climate models for the second half of the 20th century is dominated by natural internal variability associated with the Antarctic Oscillation, suggesting that the models’ internal variability is too strong, leading to a response to anthropogenic forcing that is too weak. With increased loading of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere through the 21st century, the models show an accelerated warming in the Southern Ocean, and indicate that anthropogenic forcing exceeds natural internal variability. The increased heating from below (ocean) and above (atmosphere) and increased liquid precipitation associated with the enhanced hydrological cycle results in a projected decline of the Antarctic sea ice.

[WE GOT HIM]

Ahead of all years again

[Jonger]

Ahead of all years again

55 days left of the melt season down there. The March timeframe should have global ice anomalies in the positive realm.

[sokolow]

Interesting post and comment stream on antarctic sea ice datasets at Tamino:

Bottom line: it seems to me that the evidence shows convincingly there is a discontinuity in at least one of the data sets at the moment of one of the sensor transitions. There is the distinct possibility, maybe even a “more likely than not,” that the data currently favored (v2) has a spurious increase which exaggerates the apparent trend. But even if that is the case, Antarctic sea ice still shows statistically significant increase since satellite observations began. And it’s well not to forget that however much sea ice the Antarctic may have increased, the Arctic has lost a whole lot more sea ice than the Antarctic has gained.

http://tamino.wordpress.com/2014/01/15/southern-discomfort/#more-6875

[The_Global_Warmer]

This won't go over well.  but I am totally not surprised.

 

I am dead serious I don't know a lot about Antaractica sea ice.  But when I looked througn the Antarctic ice data for the mins to familiarize myself  I remember thinking to myself it deosn't look much different eye to eye.  But it can be decieving I even wrote up a post about it but decide to not post it because I knew I would get totally destroyed no matter how well I presented my case. 

 

One thing I would say is. 

 

The current OBS are validated by the fact that we have SSMI, Windsat, AMSR2, AMSR, SSMIS data on this.  So it appears the issue is with the ice being undrdone before?

 

Because everyone had to use SSMI or SSMIS before 2000.  So this will show up on everyones data. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The_Global_Warmer]

it does appear like the trend is real and this wouldn't be a very large change.

[GaWx]

http://www.thegwpf.org/antarctic-sea-ice-grows-to-new-record/

 

 

"Antarctic Sea Ice Grows To New Record Extent

• Date: 04/06/14
•  
• Paul Homewood, Not A Lot Of People Know That

Antarctic sea ice has set a new record for May, with extent at the highest level since measurements began in 1979."

 

Why isn't more being said about this in this forum? I know it isn't nearly as dramatic a % increase as the Arctic decrease, but still it is rather substantial....why is it increasing if the globe is warming? Is it cooling off down there?

[ORH_wxman]

http://www.thegwpf.org/antarctic-sea-ice-grows-to-new-record/

 

 

"Antarctic Sea Ice Grows To New Record Extent

• Date: 04/06/14
•  
• Paul Homewood, Not A Lot Of People Know That

Antarctic sea ice has set a new record for May, with extent at the highest level since measurements began in 1979."

 

Why isn't more being said about this in this forum? I know it isn't nearly as dramatic a % increase as the Arctic decrease, but still it is rather substantial....why is it increasing if the globe is warming? Is it cooling off down there?

 

 

The southern ocean has cooled substantially in the past 30 years...the increased AAO or circumpolar current being the primary theory behind this. The theories for the change in that circulation are many...from the ozone hole (though this holds less weight these days) to the increased gradient between the southern PAC and Indian ocean (ENSO related and perhaps AGW related)...hard to say at this point.