isohume Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Take that Libya. Mess with us, huh? http://www.wmo.int/pages/mediacentre/press_releases/pr_956_en.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sickman Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Take that Libya. Mess with us, huh? http://www.wmo.int/p.../pr_956_en.html Okay, but I would hope the Death Valley record gets reanalyzed as well. As I understand it, there was some questions about that measurement as well. Wasn't there a sandstorm in progress when that temperature was reported? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSUBlizzicane2007 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I'm sure regardless that the highest temperatures actually occur in the Sahara well away from proper recording systems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Yay!!1! It always bothered me that we didn't hold the record. P.S. Extra-cool that it's SoCal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Okay, but I would hope the Death Valley record gets reanalyzed as well. As I understand it, there was some questions about that measurement as well. Wasn't there a sandstorm in progress when that temperature was reported? Not based on my understanding. I was in Death Valley and read local accounts of the day, and I don't remember mention of a storm. I'm sure regardless that the highest temperatures actually occur in the Sahara well away from proper recording systems That can be said of any weather record-- including coldest temp, highest wind, etc.-- so it's kind of a moot point. If it wasn't recorded, oh well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSUBlizzicane2007 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Not based on my understanding. I was in Death Valley and read local accounts of the day, and I don't remember mention of a storm. That can be said of any weather record-- so it's kind of a moot point. If it wasn't recorded, oh well! Not necessarily true. At least the coldest recorded temperature is on the continent which makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riptide Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Take that you terrorists, america; $$$$ yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icebreaker5221 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Highest temps in modern history have probably occurred in the Lut Desert in Iran: http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=77627 Here in the U.S., we just happen to have a far superior surface observation network than most of the world where records could potentially be set, so even the remote expanse of Death Valley is well-sampled by thermometers that meet WMO guidlines. Surface obs are few and far between in both the Sahara and much of the Middle East, and where they do exist tends to be close to bodies of water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ineedsnow Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I also see that mountwashington doesnt have the world record wind anymore either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sickman Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Not based on my understanding. I was in Death Valley and read local accounts of the day, and I don't remember mention of a storm. Hmmm... I'll have to go through my library and do some investigating tonight when I get home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Not necessarily true. At least the coldest recorded temperature is on the continent which makes sense. A world record, by definition, is the most extreme record of some milestone. So, the hottest recorded temperature on earth is not a theory or estimate or representation Re: what the hottest place on earth might actually be. I am sure some Atlantic hurricane came ashore somewhere with a pressure lower than 892 mb. But since there's no record of that, the 1935 hurricane holds the record for lowest landfalling pressure in an Atlantic hurricane. No one with any understanding of this subject assumes it's the lowest landfalling pressure ever to have occurred. Again, it's a record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Hmmm... I'll have to go through my library and do some investigating tonight when I get home. I could be wrong-- I didn't research it closely. I just saw no mention of it. In fact, I was under the impression that conditions were calm. I could be way off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derecho! Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Anyone know why Wilma doesn't have the smallest eye record? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Anyone know why Wilma doesn't have the smallest eye record? Loved that 2-mi wide eye when winds were 160 kt. Damn. So hawt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchel Volk Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Watch the excellent film online at the Weatherunderground web site about this record. http://www.wunderground.com/deadheat In addition I also think that Iran is a good canidate for the world's record high temperature as nearby by relative terms Baghdad gets over 120F alot of the time in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mencken_Fan Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Here's something interesting: The lowest point in North America is -282' in Death Valley, Ca. The highest point in the Continental U.S. is just 84.6 miles away atop Mt. Whitney (14,505'.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 So many special things about California. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Back on topic... The article is really interesting. It says they believe the Al Aziza reading was probably 7°C off. That is a huge error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BxEngine Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 So many special things about California. Yeah, special alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sickman Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I could be wrong-- I didn't research it closely. I just saw no mention of it. In fact, I was under the impression that conditions were calm. I could be way off. This is an excerpt from Extreme Weather by Christopher Burt, © 2007. The Greenland Ranch figure of 134F has been the center of a small controversy because there is no documentation of the accuracy of the thermometer and condition of its shelter, and no other official reading has ever since come close to this reading. A sandstorm was raging at the time of the observation, and some speculate that hot sand or dust may have been driven into the thermometer casing, inflating the actual temperature. A 130F temperature recorded at Amos (Mammoth Tank) in the Mohave Desert in 1887 is also suspect for the same reasons. So, Death Valley's second hottest readings of 129F recorded in July 1960, July 1998, and July 2005 may, in fact, be the highest true maximum temperatures ever recorded in the United States. As weather historian David Ludlum once put it, "Apparently, what this country needs is a good 135F reading made under standard conditions, so that the figure, like Caesar's wife, may be beyond question." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aslkahuna Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 There was an article in Weatherwise earlier this year where they examined the extreme heat records of all the continents. The main problem with the July 1913 record in Death Valley is the the Cotton Region Shelter was an older version which had an open bottom. Beyond that it was considered the most reliable reading of all of them. The Libyan temperature was especially questionable and inn fact it was found that all of the continent high temperature records with the exception of the 15C (59F) record high for Antarctica and possibly Death Valley were questionable. Curiously, the article noted that should reanalysis of these records lead to them being disallowed, then currently the hottest reliably measured temperature for the Planet remains at Death Valley with a recent 129F reading. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 This is an excerpt from Extreme Weather by Christopher Burt, © 2007. That's interesting. The account I read just said it was so hot that birds were dropping out of the air, dead, from the heat, and I got the impression it was still. I wonder what other sources there are. I've just never of this storm. Then again, I'm not too knowledgeable about this topic, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 There was an article in Weatherwise earlier this year where they examined the extreme heat records of all the continents. The main problem with the July 1913 record in Death Valley is the the Cotton Region Shelter was an older version which had an open bottom. Beyond that it was considered the most reliable reading of all of them. The Libyan temperature was especially questionable and inn fact it was found that all of the continent high temperature records with the exception of the 15C (59F) record high for Antarctica and possibly Death Valley were questionable. Curiously, the article noted that should reanalysis of these records lead to them being disallowed, then currently the hottest reliably measured temperature for the Planet remains at Death Valley with a recent 129F reading. Steve Wow-- cool. It's surprising how close so many places on the planet get to that mark (129F) all the time. It's not at all uncommon for Palm Springs to break 120F. It's just those last few degrees that make all the difference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman56 Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Highest or lowest ever records are always suspect when they are outliers of historical data at the site. The MWN wind record always bothered me since the closest the wind has ever gotten to the 231 mph reading in 1934 since has been 180 mph. The instrument that measured it was a specially designed heated anemometer that required the observer to count telegraph clicks with a stopwatch. The instrument was later retested by the Weather Bureau and deemed accurate. The Death Valley reading is believable on the other hand as the temperature reached 130+ on several days surrounding the record day. BTW, on July 12 the low was 107 tieing a record for the record highest low temperature on Earth. I can recall being there in the 80's and having morning lows around 100 several days in a row while the afternoons broiled to 122-124. Sand temperatures can reach 190. http://www.usatoday.com/NEWS/usaedition/2012-09-14-Death-Valley-now-the-hottest-spot-in-the-world_ST_U.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meteorologist Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 http://www.businessinsider.com/worlds-hottest-temperature-overturned-2012-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 OK, this story-- and maybe some California pride-- has turned me into a heat weenie these last 24 hr. Here's a really cool article that lists the top temperature readings in history and assigns a "validity score" to each: http://www.wundergro...html?entrynum=3 Basically, all of the historical readings over 129°F are suspect. Death Valley's 134°F squeezes out a validity score of 5, which is actually high compared to all of the others, which are scored really badly at 0, 1, or 2. This leaves the 129°F recorded at Death Valley on a couple of dates in the last decade as the highest 100%-reliable temperature recorded in the world-- as Steve (aslkahuna) said yesterday (above). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 This reanalysis of record temperature readings reminds me a lot of the new scrutiny being directed at the highest wind readings in historic hurricanes. Once you scratch below the surface and really look closely at these older readings, you find all kinds of problems-- with the instrumentation, the housing, the environment, the elevation, and so on. As with wind, there are a lot of factors that have to be considered when assessing the validity of an extreme temperature reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aslkahuna Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Temperatures and winds are particularly difficult to get a handle on. The matter of exposure for temperatures is even more critical for minimum readings since on a clear calm winter night the difference between a standard height reading and one at 10m can be 2-5C warmer at 10m and if you are in a cold air drainage area (pneumonia holl0w) then you can get really cold compared to surroundings (ex:Tower MN). I have trees nearby that are up to 15m or so and on windy days I'll see evidence of 40+mph winds there while my wind sensor at 5m (10m not practical due to powerlines) is showing 25mph and I'm measuring 17-22mph at ground level. Something to bear in mind for storm chasing. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aslkahuna Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Highest or lowest ever records are always suspect when they are outliers of historical data at the site. The MWN wind record always bothered me since the closest the wind has ever gotten to the 231 mph reading in 1934 since has been 180 mph. The instrument that measured it was a specially designed heated anemometer that required the observer to count telegraph clicks with a stopwatch. The instrument was later retested by the Weather Bureau and deemed accurate. The Death Valley reading is believable on the other hand as the temperature reached 130+ on several days surrounding the record day. BTW, on July 12 the low was 107 tieing a record for the record highest low temperature on Earth. I can recall being there in the 80's and having morning lows around 100 several days in a row while the afternoons broiled to 122-124. Sand temperatures can reach 190. http://www.usatoday.com/NEWS/usaedition/2012-09-14-Death-Valley-now-the-hottest-spot-in-the-world_ST_U.htm There was also an article YEARS ago in Weatherwise about the wind record on the rockpile and the author noted that the location of the anemometer had been changed and that may have been a factor in the lack of 200+ winds since 1934. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneJosh Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Temperatures and winds are particularly difficult to get a handle on. The matter of exposure for temperatures is even more critical for minimum readings since on a clear calm winter night the difference between a standard height reading and one at 10m can be 2-5C warmer at 10m and if you are in a cold air drainage area (pneumonia holl0w) then you can get really cold compared to surroundings (ex:Tower MN). I have trees nearby that are up to 15m or so and on windy days I'll see evidence of 40+mph winds there while my wind sensor at 5m (10m not practical due to powerlines) is showing 25mph and I'm measuring 17-22mph at ground level. Something to bear in mind for storm chasing. Steve Yeah, totally. I'm realizing more and more how different winds are at 10 m versus 2 m (a person's height)-- it's a big difference, and it's the 10-m reading that officially counts. I corresponded with a dude who did a lot of the mid-century hurricane reanalysis work, Andrew Hagen, and he gave me some rules of thumb for converting a 2- or 3-m reading to a rough 10-m equivalent. Cory has re-engineered the BASTARD (my instrument mount) to have a taller mast-- so it's now a good 3 m-- maybe higher-- and I think that'll help a bit. That and the new anemometer. Sorry for going OT... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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