Cold Miser Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 That was last year I will have to check again, but I thought it was an average that was listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Doesn't all of this micro climate data discussion ring similar to the same debates that had Kevin defending dew temps in specified locations (his and other backyards) all summer long vs. open field or airport locations? Data is just not going to be available for every patch of forest. Extrapolation/ estimating via the data from surrounding areas is the best that can be done in certain cases, outside of actually driving out to said weenie spot after every snow. With that being said, why can't it be possible for Steve's little snow magnet of a location to exist? Will answered that, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Doesn't all of this micro climate data discussion ring similar to the same debates that had Kevin defending dew temps in specified locations (his and other backyards) all summer long vs. open field or airport locations? Data is just not going to be available for every patch of forest. Extrapolation/ estimating via the data from surrounding areas is the best that can be done in certain cases, outside of actually driving out to said weenie spot after every snow. With that being said, why can't it be possible for Steve's little snow magnet of a location to exist? I guesstimated but you know the spot on RT 6 but even deeper in its more. Could be 5, I do not know, But after 13 winters I have a good idea that it is more than any spot around, probably a 1/2 mile by 1/2 mile area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishRob17 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I will have to check again, but I thought it was an average that was listed. Theres no way Monroe averages that low. No way. The Monroe area is often times a jackpot spot for Orange County depending on the storm set up. I would even bet that their average could be a little higher than what that map shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 When I lived in RI the top of Collins RD in Ashaway was a weenie snow spot. my best friend lived there. Where I lived less than a mile away was another world the average was 2/3rds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HimoorWx Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Randolph, MA 240' It wouldn't let me attach the excel file so here's what I have so far sorted by elevation from high to low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisM Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Can someone link me where it tells you exactly how you're supposed to measure snow for the NWS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 See my post above you. The lack of recorded snow fall is an issue. I believe Kevin and over the years he has averaged well above the 60 you peg him at because some coop records show that. You know that winter hill is a weenie spot, how much does that average above you? You do not really know do you/ just sayin.... Kevin doesn't have any accurate coop records right near him to use...but its not too tough to peg his average snowfall from other areas. The closest reliable coop to him for snowfall is East Brimfield which averages 59" at an elevation of 680 feet...however, it also has about 10-15 miles of latitude on him. The general rule of thumb is about an inch of snow every 3-4 miles of latitude in the interior sans any elevation difference or major orographic features...that would bring Kevin down to about 55" of snow, however, he has about 300 feet on East Brimfield's coop and the general rule of thumb is about an extra inch per 100 feet of elevation. So that brings Kevin back up to around 58". They both have similar orographic trajectories. It works when you compare him to ORH as well...he lacks about 25-28 miles in latitude on ORH at similar elevation...which by itself gives him about 6-8" less than their 69" average...however, ORH is in a better orographic spot, so you can probably dock them an extra few inches from that. The Southbridge coop slightly closer to him averages 54.5" of snow at 720 feet...however, I find them to be not quite reliable enough for comparing seasonal snowfall. I think its probably a little low there. In addition, if Kevin averaged significantly more than 60" of snow, that would put him pretty close to my average, and you would have expected that he would have beaten my snowfall totals more than once out of the past 10 winters. The one season he did (2005-2006), it was by tenths of an inch. The body of work thus far at his location hasn't supported a snowfall total on par or very close to my area which does have a pretty reliable record to go by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 There are weenie spots for snow...that is not what is being refuted though...its the magnitude of the snow difference. Winter hill is a weenie spot around here...and it probably averages an extra couple inches of snow per year than my spot. Weenie ridge probably averages 10" more than me...due to latitude and an extra 500 feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisM Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Kevin doesn't have any accurate coop records right near him to use...but its not too tough to peg his average snowfall from other areas. The closest reliable coop to him for snowfall is East Brimfield which averages 59" at an elevation of 680 feet...however, it also has about 10-15 miles of latitude on him. The general rule of thumb is about an inch of snow every 3-4 miles of latitude in the interior sans any elevation difference or major orographic features...that would bring Kevin down to about 55" of snow, however, he has about 300 feet on East Brimfield's coop and the general rule of thumb is about an extra inch per 100 feet of elevation. So that brings Kevin back up to around 58". They both have similar orographic trajectories. It works when you compare him to ORH as well...he lacks about 25-28 miles in latitude on ORH at similar elevation...which by itself gives him about 6-8" less than their 69" average...however, ORH is in a better orographic spot, so you can probably dock them an extra few inches from that. The Southbridge coop slightly closer to him averages 54.5" of snow at 720 feet...however, I find them to be not quite reliable enough for comparing seasonal snowfall. I think its probably a little low there. In addition, if Kevin averaged significantly more than 60" of snow, that would put him pretty close to my average, and you would have expected that he would have beaten my snowfall totals more than once out of the past 10 winters. The one season he did (2005-2006), it was by tenths of an inch. The body of work thus far at his location hasn't supported a snowfall total on par or very close to my area which does have a pretty reliable record to go by. I'm also having a terrible time finding coop stations near my house. I google it and it always brings me to some obscure NWS page every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I'm also having a terrible time finding coop stations near my house. I google it and it always brings me to some obscure NWS page every time. Try this. They just revamped the page so it may take a little getting used to. http://climate.usurf.usu.edu/mapGUI/mapGUI.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 How about a spot like MQE which averages more snow than Kevin and about 8 miles from water? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Miser Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Theres no way Monroe averages that low. No way. The Monroe area is often times a jackpot spot for Orange County depending on the storm set up. I would even bet that their average could be a little higher than what that map shows. Yeah, I just rechecked. I don't know what the hell I was looking at earlier. Looks like the snowblower will be coming after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 How about a spot like MQE which averages more snow than Kevin and about 8 miles from water? LOL..I doubt they do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Kevin doesn't have any accurate coop records right near him to use...but its not too tough to peg his average snowfall from other areas. The closest reliable coop to him for snowfall is East Brimfield which averages 59" at an elevation of 680 feet...however, it also has about 10-15 miles of latitude on him. The general rule of thumb is about an inch of snow every 3-4 miles of latitude in the interior sans any elevation difference or major orographic features...that would bring Kevin down to about 55" of snow, however, he has about 300 feet on East Brimfield's coop and the general rule of thumb is about an extra inch per 100 feet of elevation. So that brings Kevin back up to around 58". They both have similar orographic trajectories. It works when you compare him to ORH as well...he lacks about 25-28 miles in latitude on ORH at similar elevation...which by itself gives him about 6-8" less than their 69" average...however, ORH is in a better orographic spot, so you can probably dock them an extra few inches from that. The Southbridge coop slightly closer to him averages 54.5" of snow at 720 feet...however, I find them to be not quite reliable enough for comparing seasonal snowfall. I think its probably a little low there. In addition, if Kevin averaged significantly more than 60" of snow, that would put him pretty close to my average, and you would have expected that he would have beaten my snowfall totals more than once out of the past 10 winters. The one season he did (2005-2006), it was by tenths of an inch. The body of work thus far at his location hasn't supported a snowfall total on par or very close to my area which does have a pretty reliable record to go by. Isn't there a co-op in Staffordville? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisM Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Try this. They just revamped the page so it may take a little getting used to. http://climate.usurf...pGUI/mapGUI.php Theres so many missing points of data that it was impossible to compute an average Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baroclinic Zone Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 LOL..I doubt they do Read it and weep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarloaf1989 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I have read that every 1,000' gain in altitude is the equivalent of moving 250 miles north climate wise, is this true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 LOL..I doubt they do They actually do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Theres so many missing points of data that it was impossible to compute an average The site has some weird things...it's not like the old one. I also have barely navigated the new site, but Will gave an explanation that might help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakeeffectkid383 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Orchard Park,NY 869ft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Blue Hills has a high variance because of their location, but they can snow with the best of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisM Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 The site has some weird things...it's not like the old one. I also have barely navigated the new site, but Will gave an explanation that might help. http://www.americanw...e/#entry1740290 I'm still having some trouble, maybe he can help me out. At least I found the station IDs near me. USC00068436 (Torrington) USC00060227 (Bakerville) Usc00068330 (Thomaston Dam) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I have read that every 1,000' gain in altitude is the equivalent of moving 250 miles north climate wise, is this true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Miser Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 You know when this is primarily a winter forum when a thread like this has 5 pages in about 14 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarloaf1989 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthShoreWx Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 It had me at 135 feet which is reasonable. I usually use 122 feet off of an old survey, but I am on a hill and have a range of at least 30 feet between the high and low points on the property. The place just oozes with orographic enhancement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherMA Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Good stuff in this thread. Elevation FTW. Side note: Today in meteorology we talked about converting Z time to eastern time and different time zones across the US. Finished the work before she finished explaining...so at least 3 winters of tracking winter storms on here has taught me something lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I'm still having some trouble, maybe he can help me out. At least I found the station IDs near me. USC00068436 (Torrington) USC00060227 (Bakerville) Usc00068330 (Thomaston Dam) Bakerville Jan 2011. Record of Daily Climatological Observations and Calculated Degree Days and Means BAKERSVILLE, CT January 2011 Latitude: Longitude: Elevation: Station number: 41.8417 -73.0086 686.024 feet 1065257 Day Temperature in °F Precipitation in Inches ET0* Degree Days (based on °F) Max Min Mean Total Snowfall Snow depth Heating (65) Cooling (65) Growing (40) Growing (50) 1 46.9 26.1 36.5 0.00 M 7.01 0.82 28.5 0.0 0.0 0.0 2 48.9 30.0 39.6 0.01 M 4.02 0.85 25.5 0.0 0.0 0.0 3 44.1 25.0 34.5 T T 4.02 0.75 30.5 0.0 0.0 0.0 4 30.9 15.1 23.0 0.00 M 2.99 0.46 42.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 5 36.0 14.0 25.0 T T 2.99 0.59 40.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 6 33.1 10.9 21.9 T T 2.99 0.52 43.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 7 28.9 10.0 19.4 T T 2.99 0.43 45.5 0.0 0.0 0.0 8 30.0 17.1 23.5 0.28 5.59 7.99 0.43 41.5 0.0 0.0 0.0 9 28.9 19.9 24.4 0.05 0.39 7.99 0.38 40.6 0.0 0.0 0.0 10 M M M M M M M M M M M 11 28.9 10.0 19.4 0.00 M 5.98 0.44 45.5 0.0 0.0 0.0 12 28.9 10.0 19.4 1.29 17.60 22.99 0.45 45.5 0.0 0.0 0.0 13 27.0 17.1 21.9 0.19 4.61 25.00 0.37 43.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 14 24.1 3.9 14.0 0.00 M M 0.34 51.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 15 19.9 -4.0 7.9 T T 20.98 0.21 57.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 16 28.9 -2.0 13.5 T T 20.00 0.41 51.5 0.0 0.0 0.0 17 32.0 10.9 21.4 0.00 M 19.02 0.54 43.5 0.0 0.0 0.0 18 21.9 7.0 14.4 0.36 2.91 22.01 0.31 50.6 0.0 0.0 0.0 19 33.1 16.0 24.4 0.56 0.31 19.02 0.57 40.5 0.0 0.0 0.0 20 37.0 18.0 27.5 0.14 T 17.99 0.68 37.5 0.0 0.0 0.0 21 28.9 17.1 23.0 0.31 3.39 20.98 0.45 42.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 22 27.0 5.0 16.0 0.04 1.30 22.01 0.43 49.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 23 21.9 -6.0 7.9 0.00 M 22.01 0.25 57.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 24 18.0 -9.0 4.5 0.00 M 20.98 0.14 60.5 0.0 0.0 0.0 25 14.0 -8.0 3.0 0.09 1.81 22.01 0.08 62.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 26 32.0 6.1 19.0 0.03 0.71 22.01 0.58 46.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 27 32.0 15.1 23.5 0.56 6.50 27.99 0.59 41.5 0.0 0.0 0.0 28 33.1 8.1 20.5 T T 25.98 0.63 44.4 0.0 0.0 0.0 29 33.1 10.0 21.6 T 0.31 25.00 0.64 43.4 0.0 0.0 0.0 30 35.1 17.1 26.1 T T 24.02 0.69 38.9 0.0 0.0 0.0 31 35.1 14.0 24.4 T T 24.02 0.71 40.5 0.0 0.0 0.0 Total 919.6 324.5 621.1 3.91 45.43 472.99 14.74 1327.9 M M M Avg 30.7 10.8 20.7 0.20 3.79 16.31 0.49 44.3 M M M Max 48.9 30.0 39.6 1.29 17.60 27.99 0.85 62.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 Min 14.0 -9.0 3.0 0.00 0.31 2.99 0.08 25.5 0.0 0.0 0.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Chris, it's a PITA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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