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[Baroclinic Zone]

Don't remember that storm at all. Was probably out drinking my arse off in Boston.

[ORH_wxman]

That Friday and Friday Night was like a garden hose. It rained so hard.

It was like a garden hose here too, except it was snow. Friday night was definitely the hardest it snowed in the storm. It was just obscene....like a wall of moisture just being shoved westward into SNE and then getting pushed up into the hills.

I remember going outside around 8pm and measuring 10" of snow and then looking at the weather channel radar back inside and thinking we weren't even close to being near the end of the storm. That's when I knew something was "wrong" with all the forecasts.

I never imagined though even at that point that we would be snowing for another 24 hours.

[Ginx snewx]

I wasn't living here then..but Tolland had about 20 inches..Based on Will's map it looks like your area in SE Ct had less than 10

the climate data and reports from the local newspaper say 16-20, good try.

By the way this is free now, great source

http://www7.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/sd/sd.html

[Ginx snewx]

It was like a garden hose here too, except it was snow. Friday night was definitely the hardest it snowed in the storm. It was just obscene....like a wall of moisture just being shoved westward into SNE and then getting pushed up into the hills.

I remember going outside around 8pm and measuring 10" of snow and then looking at the weather channel radar back inside and thinking we weren't even close to being near the end of the storm. That's when I knew something was "wrong" with all the forecasts.

I never imagined though even at that point that we would be snowing for another 24 hours.

blue Hill 6.85 total QPF with 16 of snow. Nice

[ORH_wxman]

the climate data and reports from the local newspaper say 16-20, good try.

By the way this is free now, great source

http://www7.ncdc.noa.../IPS/sd/sd.html

My map shows your area with good snow anyway.Sharp cutoff near you of course, but that was how it went in that storm. The 24.4" on the map is the N Foster coop total.

[powderfreak]

Would you consider getting a place with Pickles?

Haha sure...although I've got a condo so I'm pretty much staying where I am for the time being. I met Christian last winter...nice guy.

[CoastalWx]

It was like a garden hose here too, except it was snow. Friday night was definitely the hardest it snowed in the storm. It was just obscene....like a wall of moisture just being shoved westward into SNE and then getting pushed up into the hills.

I remember going outside around 8pm and measuring 10" of snow and then looking at the weather channel radar back inside and thinking we weren't even close to being near the end of the storm. That's when I knew something was "wrong" with all the forecasts.

I never imagined though even at that point that we would be snowing for another 24 hours.

I almost fell of my chair when I heard the ORH total Saturday afternoon. I couldn't even fathom that. Incredible.

[Ginx snewx]

My map shows your area with good snow anyway.Sharp cutoff near you of course, but that was how it went in that storm. The 24.4" on the map is the N Foster coop total.

yea they had a 22 base two days later with 5.70 total QPF

[ORH_wxman]

yea they had a 22 base two days later with 5.70 total QPF

I believe the Woonsocket total was just over 20" of snow with over a 7" water equivalent for the storm...obviously a chunk of that was heavy rain before they flipped to snow....but that snow was like 6 to 1 type stuff in lower spots like Woonsocket...they just got annihilated with that low level jet off the Atlantic.

The storm was basically nothing but a monster LLJ off the Atlantic with no frontogenetical forcing due to relatively isothermal temp profile horizontally across SNE. That's probably why orographics played an even larger role than normal (lack of larger scale banding attributes)...that and the fact the winds were so strong and from the east. It was the perfect storm of ingredients for massive differences depending on where you were.

[Ginx snewx]

Those that missed out on snow Dec 92 had to wait until the two big snows of March 93. People forget about the March 5th storm before the Storm of the Century.

[Ginx snewx]

I believe the Woonsocket total was just over 20" of snow with over a 7" water equivalent for the storm...obviously a chunk of that was heavy rain before they flipped to snow....but that snow was like 6 to 1 type stuff in lower spots like Woonsocket...they just got annihilated with that low level jet off the Atlantic.

The storm was basically nothing but a monster LLJ off the Atlantic with no frontogenetical forcing due to relatively isothermal temp profile horizontally across SNE. That's probably why orographics played an even larger role than normal (lack of larger scale banding attributes)...that and the fact the winds were so strong and from the east. It was the perfect storm of ingredients for massive differences depending on where you were.

I was living on the beach at the time, just awesome, drove to Foster about 20 mins North and wow. Started seeing snow in West Greenwich then boom. The snow was the wettest I have seen before and since, total cement.

[powderfreak]

My map shows your area with good snow anyway.Sharp cutoff near you of course, but that was how it went in that storm. The 24.4" on the map is the N Foster coop total.

What were you getting for snowfall rates? That must've been ticking at like a 1/4" - 1/3" QPF per hour at times.

Any radar images from that one?

[ORH_wxman]

The upper air charts are always amazing to look at for that storm

http://www.meteo.psu.edu/~gadomski/NARR/1992/us1211.php

http://www.meteo.psu.edu/~gadomski/NARR/1992/us1212.php

That thing dug for oil.

[ORH_wxman]

What were you getting for snowfall rates? That must've been ticking at like a 1/4" - 1/3" QPF per hour

The peak was Friday evening from memory...about 3-4 inches per hour. The snow was still pretty wet at that point, though where I was in Holden, MA at 1,050 feet, it dried out in the 2nd half of the storm. I'm sure we were easily popping 3 to 4 tenths of L.E. per hour during that part...maybe even an hour with half inch of qpf.

[CoastalWx]

The peak was Friday evening from memory...about 3-4 inches per hour. The snow was still pretty wet at that point, though where I was in Holden, MA at 1,050 feet, it dried out in the 2nd half of the storm. I'm sure we were easily popping 3 to 4 tenths of L.E. per hour during that part...maybe even an hour with half inch of qpf.

Just an isentropic monster with a massive TROWAL.

[powderfreak]

The upper air charts are always amazing to look at for that storm

http://www.meteo.psu.edu/~gadomski/NARR/1992/us1211.php

http://www.meteo.psu.edu/~gadomski/NARR/1992/us1212.php

That thing dug for oil.

That's some high thickness values...shows why 1000-500mb thicknesses can be misleading.

[ChrisM]

The upper air charts are always amazing to look at for that storm

http://www.meteo.psu...1992/us1211.php

http://www.meteo.psu...1992/us1212.php

That thing dug for oil.

What did the pressure get down to with that?

[ORH_wxman]

I almost fell of my chair when I heard the ORH total Saturday afternoon. I couldn't even fathom that. Incredible.

You already know what I'm talking about, but the funniest part about that storm was I was at my grandparents place in Holden, and they were the ones who told me I'd see big snowstorms every year when we moved back up to Worcester in 1988...we then proceeded to go the longest stretch on record here without a 10" snowstorm from 1988-1992...of course, the Dec 1992 storm was the storm that broke that streak. The irony being that breaking the all time record snowfall during a run of over 4 years without a 10" snowstorm...they joked to me "well mother nature is giving you payback for the last 4 years you had to wait".

I believe we had a total of 4 storms of over 10" that winter including another 20" in the March 1993 superstorm.

[Ginx snewx]

What did the pressure get down to with that?

Saw 980 ish but a huge 1035 HP to its north and it was blocked, 3-4 tide cycles worth

[ORH_wxman]

What did the pressure get down to with that?

About 988mb. It wasn't an insanely low pressure, but there was a 1040mb high just to our northeast which produced the very strong gradient. they had gusts over 90mph on LI and also on Cape Cod.

[Ginx snewx]

You already know what I'm talking about, but the funniest part about that storm was I was at my grandparents place in Holden, and they were the ones who told me I'd see big snowstorms every year when we moved back up to Worcester in 1988...we then proceeded to go the longest stretch on record here without a 10" snowstorm from 1988-1992...of course, the Dec 1992 storm was the storm that broke that streak. The irony being that breaking the all time record snowfall during a run of over 4 years without a 10" snowstorm...they joked to me "well mother nature is giving you payback for the last 4 years you had to wait".

I believe we had a total of 4 storms of over 10" that winter including another 20" in the March 1993 superstorm.

Big time elevation North of Pike winter, rest of Dec, Jan, Feb blew chunks below you.

[Ginx snewx]

Lets do this again in Dec.

[Ginx snewx]

12/12/92 Neg PNA, Positive NAO, slightly Neg AO. Tip would have been in the cellar.

[tamarack]

I've read, probably here or on the old Eastern, that the sustained winds would be about 1 mph for every mb of gradient - that's 50-60 sustained for 12/92. Plus gusts...

Of course, gradient isn't always everything. The biggest snowstorm I've measured, 26.5" in Ft. Kent (and 29.0" in CAR) on March 13-14, 1984, began with the pressure about 1030 and barely slid below 1020 as the storm finished up. Big frigid high just to the north (was 8-10F as most snow fell, pretty cold for mid-March snowstorm even in Aroostook) was the culprit. That storm had some wind, gusts in the 20s, but it wasn't much of a factor.

[MarkO]

Google Thatcher Road, Bolton, VT...that's the highest I know of in this area of the Greens. There are quite a few folks that live up there and you can almost always find some condo or aptment rentals on craigslist up there. Only 20 min from BTV with 3-4 times the snowfall literally on the spine's west slope. I knew some UVM grad students who lived there and now I work with several folks that live up there.

Looks like the house at the top of the street (not sure if it's Thatcher or Snow Drift Lane) is at elevation 2300'.

That's pretty high, but there have got to be other roads higher. I'm guessing maybe some road off of gap/pass.

Farther south, but there appear to be some condos up on Okemo (Trailside Path/Extension) in the 2330' range.

Top of Glissade Drive at Killington is around 2400'

Houses at the top of Roxbury gap road are around 2390' (east of Sugarbush)

A few more:

Peru, MA highest town center I could find in all of NE @2000' the highest house I found was in Florida, MA at 2512, but there is a lodge at the top of Mt. Greylock, but I don't think you can "live" there: http://bascomlodge.net/

Clinton Bond Trail, Dover, VT 2600', West Ridge Road, Stratton also at 2600.

[Isopycnic]

Betula Papyrifera is a rare "relict" tree on LI. There are reliable records of native trees existing at various places on the island including Mill Neck, Coram, Wading River, Wyandanch, Greenport and Noyack. The last three were from a 1972 survey, so don't ask me if they still exist.

They are very rare and I personally have not seen one on my hikes, but they do grow here naturally,

Where in Noyack?

[Diego]

Where in Noyack?

http://en.wikipedia....oyack,_New_York

[wxmanmitch]

As a total tree geek, beginning with the Jan 1953 ice storm in NNJ (started my wx interest at the same time), I'm always willing to chime in. That pic looks like a typical even-aged hardwood forest in the 60-90 yr age bracket, the time when shade-intolerant and short-lived species like paper birch and aspens begin to drop out. (Gray birch and Eastern redcedar would be a couple decades gone.)

Slight nitpick. While black spruce is a true boreal species, red spruce is recognized by most foresters in NNE/Maritimes as THE key species of the Acadian Forest - most abundant and, in total, most valuable. It has a much smaller range than our other native spruces (black, white), not occurring naturally north of the St. Lawrence nor on Newfoundland. Its westerly extent is limited, too, not extending much past New York state, except maybe on some S.App mountaintops.

It would not surprise me if those tulip poplars were a natural relict stand. I found a similar stand, of red oak, on Charette Hill in Ft. Kent. Naturally occurring oak is exceedingly rare that far north, and this 3-acre area was about 1/3 oak of all sizes mixed with sugar and red maple, aspen, and hophornbeam. The very dry summer of 1978 gave me a clue as to why the oak was there; by late August all the other species around it were turning brown, but the more drought-tolerant oak wasn't visibly affected. This SW-facing area had drought often enough to enable the oak to maintain and reproduce itself. White oak grows naturally in the Kennebec Valley about as far north as WVL. I f you see any farther north, it's either planted, or actually burr oak, which is sufficiently cold tolerant (though not especially shade tolerant) to be found in the Prairie Provinces in hardiness zone 2.

I'm always fascinated by the tree species up in NH too. I love that spruce look....gives it a colder feel and also those beech and aspen too. We actually used to have a cedar grove in this area...some areas of cedar still around. Otherwise, some of the trees here I think date back to 1900 or perhaps earlier? Huge maples, and trees where I'm unsure of the species.

What kind of cedar? Given your location I'd guess Eastern redcedar, the aromatic wood used to mothproof closets. It's a pioneer species and very intolerant of shade, plus short-lived, though its decay-resistant corpses can often be found on the forest floor in much older stands. Maine has almost none of this species occurring naturally; its major "cedar" is Northern white cedar (Thuja occidentalis), known as aborvitae in the nursery trade. We also have a bit of Atlantic white cedar, which is more common in near-sealevel bogs in SNE/MA.

Didn't realize the red spruce wasn't considered a boreal species. How about balsam firs? We're kind of near the southern edge of their natural range (along with the red and black spruce). It seems like a lot of the evergreen species (save for white pine and hemlock, which are found pretty much everywhere) are mostly about 1600'-1700' and up.

I don't remember seeing much white oak in Maine above the Portland area, so I'm a bit surprised they go all the way up to Waterville. Then again, it's been a while since I've been up that way. White oak is probably my favorite tree. Not sure why, it just is. As such, I like to walk in the woods around here and look for them since they're somewhat elusive. The best time to look for them is in the winter since they retain some of their leaves on lower branches, making them easier to spot from a distance. There's a bunch of them on a SW facing slope in the southern part of Lenox. I have yet to spot them anywhere else north or east of there in the Berkshires. There are more in the SW part of the county (along with blacks and scarlets). Whites are very abundant throughout the rest of SNE and are the state tree of CT.

There are some burr oaks in the swampy areas of the southern Berkshires as well. These trees can get very large.

[wxmanmitch]

I believe the Woonsocket total was just over 20" of snow with over a 7" water equivalent for the storm...obviously a chunk of that was heavy rain before they flipped to snow....but that snow was like 6 to 1 type stuff in lower spots like Woonsocket...they just got annihilated with that low level jet off the Atlantic.

The storm was basically nothing but a monster LLJ off the Atlantic with no frontogenetical forcing due to relatively isothermal temp profile horizontally across SNE. That's probably why orographics played an even larger role than normal (lack of larger scale banding attributes)...that and the fact the winds were so strong and from the east. It was the perfect storm of ingredients for massive differences depending on where you were.

Wild event. I know we've talked about this event a bit in another thread. I remember getting a cold mid-30s rain at about 250' in SW CT that occasionally mixed with mangled flakes that Friday morning, but I mostly remember the wind. Two trees came down in the woods near our home and knocked out power to the whole street when one of them came down on the power lines. We had 6" of heavy wet snow on Saturday as the winds went northerly.

Too bad there aren't any archived radar images of that event, but it was before the WSR-88Ds were deployed. It would've been really cool to see the effect of topography on precipitation bands.

Depending on the situation, I've found that KENX sometimes doesn't do a very good job at picking up upslope precipitation enhancement on the east slope since it can be a low-level phenomenon and the radar beam can't "see" it on the other side of the crest. It normally detects upslope precipitation here on the west slope just fine. KOKX and KBOX are too far away to be of much help in detecting low-level easterly upslope precipitation. On the other hand, KENX can pick up easterly upslope in the Catskills much better. You can get some massive enhancement there as there is a very sharp 2000-3000 foot rise.

[ChrisM]

Drinking game for the winter. Every time Mitch or Pf mention the word "upslope" you take a drink. However, Pf may cause some alcohol related deaths so it may nerd to be modified for him.