Damage In Tolland Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Who cares about the lows. You'll have 6" of snow while 600' has 2" of glop anyways. Yeah I could care less about low temps. I get colder than just about everyone else during CAA events, and am generally 5-8 degrees colder for highs than down lower..So while BDL is 75 today..I might only be 68- 69ish. And winter when it counts is why it's all worth it. Radiating is meh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 Happy Birthday Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorEaster27 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Yeah I could care less about low temps. I get colder than just about everyone else during CAA events, and am generally 5-8 degrees colder for highs than down lower..So while BDL is 75 today..I might only be 68- 69ish. And winter when it counts is why it's all worth it. Radiating is meh elevated valley FTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Torchey Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Happy Bday Mr H! have a great day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapturedNature Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Yeah I could care less about low temps. I get colder than just about everyone else during CAA events, and am generally 5-8 degrees colder for highs than down lower..So while BDL is 75 today..I might only be 68- 69ish. And winter when it counts is why it's all worth it. Radiating is meh I like having a happy median. For me it's not all about maximizing snowfall. I like a nice mix. My highs are generally lower than the valley and my lows are lower still. If my high is 5° more than 1000' during a CAA event and my low is 13° lower, my mean is still lower so it's better for snow retention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrite Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I've definitely noticed an increase in color over the last few days beyond the typical early weak leaves. Many trees are showing some extent of color. I was on 129 in Loudon yesterday and the swampy smaller trees are already near peak. GC must have a lot of leaf drop by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 I've definitely noticed an increase in color over the last few days beyond the typical early weak leaves. Many trees are showing some extent of color. I was on 129 in Loudon yesterday and the swampy smaller trees are already near peak. GC must have a lot of leaf drop by now. Pete did his last clean up and MPM raked in a shawl yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Pete did his last clean up and MPM raked in a shawl yesterday. Pete doesn't do leaves. He doesn't do lawn..He just leaves them and then gets leaf rot come springtime. Besides..they've had 2 weeks of solid snowcover anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 Pete doesn't do leaves. He doesn't do lawn..He just leaves them and then gets leaf rot come springtime. Besides..they've had 2 weeks of solid snowcover anyway. His yard is probably moss anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrite Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I like having a happy median. For me it's not all about maximizing snowfall. I like a nice mix. My highs are generally lower than the valley and my lows are lower still. If my high is 5° more than 1000' during a CAA event and my low is 13° lower, my mean is still lower so it's better for snow retention. Rad nights have little effect on snow retention imo. On clear nights during snow cover season most of the interior is below freezing. 18 vs 26...no biggie. I used to radiate like mad at the place I grew up in in Rockingham Co., NH...even better than CON sometimes. I miss those extreme cold radiating nights sometimes, but it is worth missing for the cooler highs. I get frustrated being 5F warmer than CON on rad nights now on my hillside, but at least it helps a bit on the heating bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 Rad nights have little effect on snow retention imo. On clear nights during snow cover season most of the interior is below freezing. 18 vs 26...no biggie. I used to radiate like mad at the place I grew up in in Rockingham Co., NH...even better than CON sometimes. I miss those extreme cold radiating nights sometimes, but it is worth missing for the cooler highs. I get frustrated being 5F warmer than CON on rad nights now on my hillside, but at least it helps a bit on the heating bill. I think down here it effects it a little bit more. Some of those days in March 2011, I was like 35 for the low, while areas a couple of miles a way locked up the snow pack being in the 20s. It was like a slow bleed here for a while. But yeah up your way in the interior..the effect is less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrite Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I think down here it effects it a little bit more. Some of those days in March 2011, I was like 35 for the low, while areas a couple of miles a way locked up the snow pack being in the 20s. It was like a slow bleed here for a while. But yeah up your way in the interior..the effect is less. Yeah I'm definitely referring to interior elevation vs valley without coastal or uhi influence. If CON is whipping me in a marginally below freezing rad night they'll just torch more with sun in the afternoon. Obviously if you get too high up you risk torching in CAD events too. I've seen Gunstock at 50/50 while I'm at 32-33 in the fog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapturedNature Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Yeah I'm definitely referring to interior elevation vs valley without coastal or uhi influence. If CON is whipping me in a marginally below freezing rad night they'll just torch more with sun in the afternoon. Obviously if you get too high up you risk torching in CAD events too. I've seen Gunstock at 50/50 while I'm at 32-33 in the fog. Yeah, that's why I think there is value is a compromise place. Where I am at 650', I think I get a good mix of both worlds. I'm surrounded by 1000'+ hills so I think I do better than a 650' hilltop that is the highest place around. I see those CAD events almost every winter when I leave my "valley" location and drive up over 1000' and it's 50° with advection fog eating away at the snow. It's one reason I retain snow longer than places like that, with the exception of the 1000' "valleys" to my east. Besides, I'd miss those super cold mornings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 Yeah I'm definitely referring to interior elevation vs valley without coastal or uhi influence. If CON is whipping me in a marginally below freezing rad night they'll just torch more with sun in the afternoon. Obviously if you get too high up you risk torching in CAD events too. I've seen Gunstock at 50/50 while I'm at 32-33 in the fog. Yeah agreed...just giving a different view from this way. I hate those borderline nights where the burbs cool off. We all torch at 50 during the day, but if they are 29F and I'm 35....it's a slow twist of the knife. And I don't mean a place like OWD...this is only a couple of miles from here where this happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Rad nights have little effect on snow retention imo. On clear nights during snow cover season most of the interior is below freezing. 18 vs 26...no biggie. I used to radiate like mad at the place I grew up in in Rockingham Co., NH...even better than CON sometimes. I miss those extreme cold radiating nights sometimes, but it is worth missing for the cooler highs. I get frustrated being 5F warmer than CON on rad nights now on my hillside, but at least it helps a bit on the heating bill. I disagree to some extend, especially come springtime or more marginal airmasses. I'll dig up the photos from last Nov/early Dec when we had solid snow cover in the valley while bare ground was widespread between 1000-2000ft. It was all because above 1000ft was torching all night (for several nights in a row) in the 40s, while in the valley bottom at 700-900ft we'd go below freezing as soon as the sun went down. I have photos of brown up high and white fields in the valley. It's not uncommon in the spring either to have 1300-1600ft around the base of the ski area see a high of 50F and a low of 40F with a constant slow melt, while the village in the valley at 800ft sees a high of 53F but a low of 23F...and the snowpack is frozen solid while it's mush up high. Like Metherb said, even if you are 3-5F cooler during the day at elevation, but the valley is 15F colder at night, the average temp is lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I'm definitely not arguing that valleys retain snow better on the whole than elevations, just saying I've seen plenty of times when I wished it would just freeze up at the ski resort because we are hemorrhaging snow while down in town everything is frozen solid with 12 hours of no snow melt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrite Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I'm not arguing valleys vs 1-2kft in certain setups. I'm talking the extreme radiating spots vs the areas around them that are about 500ft higher. I also said during the heart of snow cover season. There are setups that are always exceptions and March 2012 is definitely one of those. And I still think the avg temps are somewhat overrated wrt rad nights. The valleys torch more with sun and tend to have lower daytime RH so they sublimate more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I'm not arguing valleys vs 1-2kft in certain setups. I'm talking the extreme radiating spots vs the areas around them that are about 500ft higher. I also said during the heart of snow cover season. There are setups that are always exceptions and March 2012 is definitely one of those. And I still think the avg temps are somewhat overrated wrt rad nights. The valleys torch more with sun and tend to have lower daytime RH so they sublimate more. Haha yeah I'm just playing devil's advocate and looking to debate something. The higher els definitely retain snow better, I just remember those select situations where it doesn't happen. Plus in winter I care a lot more about what happens on the mountain than at home in town, so it frustrates me during those times we see freeze ups in the valley while melt continues 500-1000ft above. It probably happens a lot more here than other areas though, as we develop some crazy inversions. Also drives me crazy in November when we want to make snow and it's in the 20s all night in town, while it's a breezy 38F at 1500ft...that's when folks are like "my pond has ice on it and you didn't make snow last night? What's wrong with you guys?" Most folks can't grasp the inversion concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Certain setups the radiation spots will retain snow cover vs the hilltops. The biggest time I noticed it was during the January 2008 torch. I had lows of like 45F on winter hill and my snowpack was getting annihilated while down to the east in places like Boyalston/Sterling/Sudbury/Stowe would radiate down to 28F at night under that Bermuda high in January. I remember driving to Sudbury 4 days into the torch when most of my snowpack was gone and they still had a a solid 6" of cement glacier in the lower parts...even more where the shade was. But I do not feel that is the norm. A lot of times in winter and early spring, I will have a deeper and more extensive snow pack than they do down low there simply because most of the time I am colder during the day and will also accumulate more snow to begin with in marginal events....the radiation for 3-4 nights in a row during a torch is really not that common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Torchey Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 This pattern would bring nightmares to weenies all over New England, storm after storm riding to our west, coldfront, cool down and warmup ahead of storm cutting to our west, looks like the gfs is backing way off on a cold later this month slowly but surely. I guess its decent to see some troughing over the upper plains and western lakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 This pattern would bring nightmares to weenies all over New England, storm after storm riding to our west, coldfront, cool down and warmup ahead of storm cutting to our west, looks like the gfs is backing way off on a cold later this month slowly but surely. I guess its decent to see some troughing over the upper plains and western lakes. It's tough to compare a pattern like this to something we would see in winter. I guarantee the pattern would not shake out like this given things like wavelengths an cold air damming. To me, the overall H5 pattern is niño like which is good IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baroclinic Zone Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Hey Wiz, my neighbor found this beaut in his shed a little while ago. You can snuggle right up with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Torchey Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 73 and sunny very light sw wind......this has truly been a classic September to Remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Torchey Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 It's tough to compare a pattern like this to something we would see in winter. I guarantee the pattern would not shake out like this given things like wavelengths an cold air damming. To me, the overall H5 pattern is niño like which is good IMO. Yeah, never said it would, like I said good to see the trough to our west.......was just pointing out the pain since its a banter thread thats all. I am wondering if we ever see a piece of that cold air even if for a day or two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amarshall Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Colorado first snow shots... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayjawintastawm Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Yay. This'll melt, but in a few more weeks it won't... A-Basin base is around 10,500, snow level today is around 10,000 with just a few hundredths of precip. Sunny and around 60 out my window in dry old Denver right now. Can't wait for real snow, though getting in a couple fall hikes first would be good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I disagree to some extend, especially come springtime or more marginal airmasses. I'll dig up the photos from last Nov/early Dec when we had solid snow cover in the valley while bare ground was widespread between 1000-2000ft. It was all because above 1000ft was torching all night (for several nights in a row) in the 40s, while in the valley bottom at 700-900ft we'd go below freezing as soon as the sun went down. I have photos of brown up high and white fields in the valley. It's not uncommon in the spring either to have 1300-1600ft around the base of the ski area see a high of 50F and a low of 40F with a constant slow melt, while the village in the valley at 800ft sees a high of 53F but a low of 23F...and the snowpack is frozen solid while it's mush up high. Like Metherb said, even if you are 3-5F cooler during the day at elevation, but the valley is 15F colder at night, the average temp is lower. I'd think that aspect is also significant, especially in late winter/early spring when the sun is stronger. Any slope facing SE around to W would probably melt off sooner than a level spot several hundred feet lower, just due to that factor. Probably you've already figured that into your observations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrite Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Certain setups the radiation spots will retain snow cover vs the hilltops. The biggest time I noticed it was during the January 2008 torch. I had lows of like 45F on winter hill and my snowpack was getting annihilated while down to the east in places like Boyalston/Sterling/Sudbury/Stowe would radiate down to 28F at night under that Bermuda high in January. I remember driving to Sudbury 4 days into the torch when most of my snowpack was gone and they still had a a solid 6" of cement glacier in the lower parts...even more where the shade was. But I do not feel that is the norm. A lot of times in winter and early spring, I will have a deeper and more extensive snow pack than they do down low there simply because most of the time I am colder during the day and will also accumulate more snow to begin with in marginal events....the radiation for 3-4 nights in a row during a torch is really not that common. That was my point...that on average I'll take hills over valleys for snowfall retention. I'm sure there's snowdepth day data to show it. Obviously there's exceptions. Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but it's tough to make long posts on an iphone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrite Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 This pattern would bring nightmares to weenies all over New England, storm after storm riding to our west, coldfront, cool down and warmup ahead of storm cutting to our west, looks like the gfs is backing way off on a cold later this month slowly but surely. I guess its decent to see some troughing over the upper plains and western lakes. Right on cue we end the 12z euro with a nice cold shot and 0C H85 down to BOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Torchey Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Right on cue we end the 12z euro with a nice cold shot and 0C H85 down to BOS. Thats cool, but it keeps getting pushed back a bit, looks like if it does happen its beyond the 25th......pretty normal stuff for this time of the year up until early November as models like to rush things. What a day! 75 and sunny.........wish this could last forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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