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September 2012 General Discussion


Brewers

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- Nice greenhouse in the making Tropical! That should keep your plants warm and toasty. You probably won't need to cut back your plants now over the winter since you have this!?

...

Tonight seems a repeat of last night, about 60°, mostly clear with similar dewpoints in the lower 50s. Hoping for some rain tomorrow. - Amounts don't look to be too impressive though.

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A similar trough moved in during September 2007 -- actually right around the same timeframe in the month. 850 mb temps were 0 to -4 over a large part of the area as depicted here.

07091500.gif

However, in MKE the high was 59 and the low was 40. Point being, it's very hard to get a freeze here this early in the season. Long range models now moving toward moderation toward the end of the month as the anomalous trough lifts out and the ridge builds in from the west.

test8.gif

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A similar trough moved in during September 2007 -- actually right around the same timeframe in the month. 850 mb temps were 0 to -4 over a large part of the area as depicted here.

However, in MKE the high was 59 and the low was 40. Point being, it's very hard to get a freeze here this early in the season. Long range models now moving toward moderation toward the end of the month as the anomalous trough lifts out and the ridge builds in from the west.

Get ready for a 2007-08 winter redux then. :weenie: :weenie: :weenie:

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Exactly what? That Powerball is drawing comparisons to one of the strongest El Ninos ever. This winter is not going to be anywhere near an El Nino of that magnitude.

It was a hypothetical example. I guess that wasn't as obvious as I figured it would be.

But the point is be careful what you wish for.

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So far lots of clouds today. About 71 right now. Thinking a frost on the ground might be a stretch, but elevated surfaces (i.e. roof tops) might be cold enough for frost.

Anyone within six miles of Lake Michigan (except Tropical) probably will not see frost tomorrow night, though many outlying areas from about Rockford and the Quad Cities north probably will.

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Anyone within six miles of Lake Michigan (except Tropical) probably will not see frost tomorrow night, though many outlying areas from about Rockford and the Quad Cities north probably will.

Probably right. He was saying Milwaukee won't get below 40. That may be true, but he shouldn't compare that to his location- outside of the UHI. Last September we had some light frost at about 35.

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Some cells starting to pop up near Janesville.

MESOSCALE DISCUSSION 1950

NWS STORM PREDICTION CENTER NORMAN OK

0130 PM CDT MON SEP 17 2012

AREAS AFFECTED...LOWER MI...SERN WI...NRN IL

CONCERNING...SEVERE POTENTIAL...WATCH UNLIKELY

VALID 171830Z - 171930Z

PROBABILITY OF WATCH ISSUANCE...5 PERCENT

SUMMARY...A HAIL THREAT WILL ACCOMPANY THE STRONGER TSTMS FORMING

ALONG A COLD FRONT ACROSS LOWER MI. ADDITIONAL DEVELOPMENT MAY OCCUR

FARTHER SE THIS AFTERNOON INTO PARTS OF SERN WI AND NRN IL. A FEW OF

THESE STORMS WILL BE CAPABLE OF PRODUCING MARGINALLY SVR HAIL...BUT

A WW IS UNLIKELY.

DISCUSSION...18Z SFC ANALYSIS SHOWS A COLD FRONT ACROSS NRN LOWER MI

EXTENDING SWWD ACROSS LM TOWARDS THE IA/IL BORDER...ATTENDANT TO A

WEAK SFC LOW POSITIONED W OF APN. WEAK LOW-LEVEL CONVERGENCE ALONG

THE COLD FRONT...COMBINED WITH MODEST MIDLEVEL HEIGHT FALLS...HAVE

SUSTAINED TSTMS OVER NRN LOWER MI...OCCASIONALLY DISPLAYING THE

POTENTIAL TO PRODUCE HAIL. ADDITIONAL CONVECTIVE SHOWERS/TSTMS HAVE

BEGUN TO DEVELOP MORE RECENTLY FARTHER S ACROSS ERN IA/SRN WI. THE

COLD FRONT AND ASSOCIATED TSTMS WILL CONTINUE TO PROGRESS

EWD...WHERE STRONGER HEATING HAS OCCURRED WITH TEMPERATURES REACHING

THE 70S F. STEEP MIDLEVEL LAPSE RATES AND MODEST BOUNDARY LAYER

MOISTURE HAVE YIELDED ESTIMATED MLCAPE VALUES OF 500-1000 J/KG.

STRENGTHENING MIDLEVEL FLOW...AND RESULTANT EFFECTIVE SHEAR NEAR 40

KTS...WILL BE SUPPORTIVE OF A THREAT FOR MARGINALLY SVR HAIL

ACCOMPANYING THE STRONGEST CONVECTIVE CORES...DESPITE THE PRESENCE

OF WEAK INSTABILITY. HOWEVER...THE MAGNITUDE/AREAL COVERAGE OF THE

HAIL THREAT IS EXPECTED TO BE TOO LOW TO WARRANT WW CONSIDERATION.

..ROGERS/MEAD.. 09/17/2012

ATTN...WFO...APX...GRR...LOT...MKX...DVN...

LAT...LON 45348424 45478393 45458357 44998322 44528338 44048445

43218562 42528673 41978796 41488909 41518988 41969006

42318990 43158827 43618705 44498550 45348424

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Again, good model agreement out to 240 hours, it does look like midweek next week the Midwest sees a warmup, except that trough might stick around the great lakes. Lucky suckers.

What part of MN are you in?

Meanwhile, these storms are getting their act together.

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I'm in east central, I'd love to think the long range gfs is right and that 1020 high keeps the western heat...west. Not going to bank on that though. I still say we all see a pretty good shot of Indian Summer or whatever you want to call it around the end of September/beginning of October.

Huh, I am a prophet, according to at least one local pro met: :axe:

ALTHOUGH THIS COLD PATTERN DEVELOPING IS THE FIRST IN A LONG TIME

FOR THE UPPER MIDWEST...LOOKING AT SIMILAR SCENARIOS IN THE PAST

WHICH HAD THE SAME TYPE OF PATTERN /1952/1988/2003/...THE COLD AIR

QUICKLY ABATED BY THE FIRST WEEK OF OCTOBER...WITH EVEN ONE DAY

NEAR A RECORD HIGH. LOOKING AT THE CFC /SEASONAL CLIMATE FORECAST

FROM CPC/ DOES ILLUSTRATE THE COMMON THEME THE UPPER MIDWEST HAS

BEEN EXPERIENCING...WARM AND DRY WEATHER FOR THE UPCOMING

FALL/EARLY WINTER. BASED ON THE EL NINO PATTERN FOR THE UPPER

MIDWEST WINTERS...AND HOW SIMILAR YEARS HAD THIS TYPE OF

PATTERN...WILL LIKELY SEE MORE OF A WARMER WINTER THAN COLD. BUT

AGAIN...THIS IS BASED ON CLIMATE MODELS WHICH ARE ALWAYS MODIFYING

THE MEAN PATTERN. ..JLT..

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Huh, I am a prophet, according to at least one local pro met: :axe:

ALTHOUGH THIS COLD PATTERN DEVELOPING IS THE FIRST IN A LONG TIME

FOR THE UPPER MIDWEST...LOOKING AT SIMILAR SCENARIOS IN THE PAST

WHICH HAD THE SAME TYPE OF PATTERN /1952/1988/2003/...THE COLD AIR

QUICKLY ABATED BY THE FIRST WEEK OF OCTOBER...WITH EVEN ONE DAY

NEAR A RECORD HIGH. LOOKING AT THE CFC /SEASONAL CLIMATE FORECAST

FROM CPC/ DOES ILLUSTRATE THE COMMON THEME THE UPPER MIDWEST HAS

BEEN EXPERIENCING...WARM AND DRY WEATHER FOR THE UPCOMING

FALL/EARLY WINTER. BASED ON THE EL NINO PATTERN FOR THE UPPER

MIDWEST WINTERS...AND HOW SIMILAR YEARS HAD THIS TYPE OF

PATTERN...WILL LIKELY SEE MORE OF A WARMER WINTER THAN COLD. BUT

AGAIN...THIS IS BASED ON CLIMATE MODELS WHICH ARE ALWAYS MODIFYING

THE MEAN PATTERN. ..JLT..

All I gotta say: :thumbsup:

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Huh, I am a prophet, according to at least one local pro met: :axe:

ALTHOUGH THIS COLD PATTERN DEVELOPING IS THE FIRST IN A LONG TIME

FOR THE UPPER MIDWEST...LOOKING AT SIMILAR SCENARIOS IN THE PAST

WHICH HAD THE SAME TYPE OF PATTERN /1952/1988/2003/...THE COLD AIR

QUICKLY ABATED BY THE FIRST WEEK OF OCTOBER...WITH EVEN ONE DAY

NEAR A RECORD HIGH. LOOKING AT THE CFC /SEASONAL CLIMATE FORECAST

FROM CPC/ DOES ILLUSTRATE THE COMMON THEME THE UPPER MIDWEST HAS

BEEN EXPERIENCING...WARM AND DRY WEATHER FOR THE UPCOMING

FALL/EARLY WINTER. BASED ON THE EL NINO PATTERN FOR THE UPPER

MIDWEST WINTERS...AND HOW SIMILAR YEARS HAD THIS TYPE OF

PATTERN...WILL LIKELY SEE MORE OF A WARMER WINTER THAN COLD. BUT

AGAIN...THIS IS BASED ON CLIMATE MODELS WHICH ARE ALWAYS MODIFYING

THE MEAN PATTERN. ..JLT..

lol at those cherry picked yrs.

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