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Hurricane Isaac, Part 3 - Analysis and Forecasting Thread


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A bit lopsided, but we have around 2/3s of an eyewall. Cat 2 is a high probability, IMO.

post-29-0-33521000-1346091061_thumb.jpg

I think so too....I mentioned this morning that I thought Isaac was about 12 hrs away from a period of intesification up to low/med cat 2...with about 6 more hours to go in that window, things are looking on track.

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Regardless if this makes it to Cat 2 or not I still think the surge will not catch up in time before it comes ashore, it may have 110 mph winds in what is now my thinking on the worst case sceario but it may only have high end TS or minimal hurricane surge thankfully. I still think because of the lousy sloping of the shelf in the northern GOM it will still do alot of damage but I don't see anything resembling Katrina right now

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Funny thing is, I was thinking the exact opposite. Most of the coldest cloud tops on IR/WV are left of shear, which is what you would expect from a sheared system. However, the radar returns from the Tampa radar are pretty symmetric about the center, and high-resolution visible imagery suggest this as well (although much tougher to tell). Something that does bode well for strengthening is the fact that recon had pretty substantial SFMR rain rates pretty close to the center, suggesting that there is quite a bit of diabatic heating in the inertially stable region inside the RMW. But as we all know, intensity forecasting is extremely difficult, so we'll have to wait and see how this plays out.

The recon pass through right now indicates that the wind field is responding to this. The RMW has now contracted to 20 km as a new inner wind maximum has sprouted up. We *could* be looking at the beginnings of an accelerated intensification, with the caveat that these things are always difficult to diagnose/predict.

Edit: RMW in the SW quad is bit further out at 40-50 km, but the point still remains valid: an inner wind maximum has sprouted up when before it didn't exist.

Agree with this. The shear has actually decreased over the system today (as expected) but the resultant dry air that was ingested yesterday is still trying to be mixed out. It will probably be another 12 hour or so till this is not as much of an issue. It does appear that the core RMW is decreasing, which bodes well for intensification down the road.

A bit lopsided, but we have around 2/3s of an eyewall. Cat 2 is a high probability, IMO.

post-29-0-33521000-1346091061_thumb.jpg

We are in agreement.

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Regardless if this makes it to Cat 2 or not I still think the surge will not catch up in time before it comes ashore, it may have 110 mph winds in what is now my thinking on the worst case sceario but it may only have high end TS or minimal hurricane surge thankfully. I still think because of the lousy sloping of the shelf in the northern GOM it will still do alot of damage but I don't see anything resembling Katrina right now

That is the thing....you want winds intensifying upon LF to maximize impact, but conversely with regard to surge, you want it to have had time to build it....ie, Katrina did not maximize wind damage because it was decaying, but it had had days at cat 5 strength to amass that lethal surge....this one will not.

This system may transport wind energy more efficiently from aloft to the surface at LF than Katrina did, but the surge will be minimized.

Great point.

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roduct: Air Force Vortex Message (URNT12 KNHC)

Transmitted: 27th day of the month at 18:26Z

Aircraft: Air Force Aircraft (Last 3 digits of the tail number are 306)

Storm Number & Year: 09L in 2012

Storm Name: Isaac (flight in the North Atlantic basin)

Mission Number: 27

Observation Number: 06

A. Time of Center Fix: 27th day of the month at 17:52:10Z

B. Center Fix Coordinates: 26°07'N 85°59'W (26.1167N 85.9833W)

B. Center Fix Location: 252 miles (405 km) to the WSW (239°) from Tampa, FL, USA.

C. Minimum Height at Standard Level: 1,296m (4,252ft) at 850mb

D. Estimated (by SFMR or visually) Maximum Surface Wind: 64kts (~ 73.6mph)

E. Location of the Estimated Maximum Surface Wind: 40 nautical miles (46 statute miles) to the NW (318°) of center fix

F. Maximum Flight Level Wind Inbound: From 57° at 54kts (From the ENE at ~ 62.1mph)

G. Location of Maximum Flight Level Wind Inbound: 37 nautical miles (43 statute miles) to the NW (319°) of center fix

H. Minimum Sea Level Pressure: 985mb (29.09 inHg)

I. Maximum Flight Level Temp & Pressure Altitude Outside Eye: 18°C (64°F) at a pressure alt. of 1,538m (5,046ft)

J. Maximum Flight Level Temp & Pressure Altitude Inside Eye: 22°C (72°F) at a pressure alt. of 1,544m (5,066ft)

K. Dewpoint Temp & Sea Surface Temp (collected at same location as temp inside eye): Not Available

L. Eye Character: Not Available

M. Eye Shape: Not Available

N. Fix Determined By: Penetration, Radar, Wind, Pressure and Temperature

N. Fix Level: 850mb

O. Navigation Fix Accuracy: 0.02 nautical miles

O. Meteorological Accuracy: 0.5 nautical miles

Remarks Section:

Maximum Flight Level Wind: 54kts (~ 62.1mph) in the northwest quadrant at 17:39:00Z

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Regardless if this makes it to Cat 2 or not I still think the surge will not catch up in time before it comes ashore, it may have 110 mph winds in what is now my thinking on the worst case sceario but it may only have high end TS or minimal hurricane surge thankfully. I still think because of the lousy sloping of the shelf in the northern GOM it will still do alot of damage but I don't see anything resembling Katrina right now

That is the thing....you want winds intensifying upon LF to maximize impact, but conversely with regard to surge, you want it to have had time to build it....ie, Katrina did not maximize wind damage because it was decaying, but it had had days at cat 5 strength to amass that lethal surge....this one will not.

This system may transport wind energy more efficiently from aloft to the surface at LF than Katrina did, but the surge will be minimized.

Great point.

This was debunked yesterday by CUMet

The storm surge is much more a function of storm size, particularly the RMW and the extent of gale-hurricane force winds than it is of previous 24 hour maximum intensity. The concept of the storm surge having a "memory" of the max intensity, or there being some sort of lag was popularized immediately following the 2005 Gulf hurricanes, but the papers I've read about the topic since then suggest that the effect, if any, is small. For example, Charley had a small surge mostly because its wind field was small and the angle of approach may not have been optimal, not because it underwent RI just prior to landfall.
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One model that has been preforming remarkably well with Isaac is actually the HRRR. Last night I watched a few runs and it indeed showed the progression of the shear vector from southerly to more easterly today corresponding to a shifting the reflectivity swath. More recently, its finally showing signs of developing in eye in the 5-6 hour range. It was not developing an eye on reflectivity in the model runs last night.

For todays 16z animation go here

2utnlnr.png

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About the storm surge... other than CU having the correct viewpoint on this, keep in mind that one of the most prominent drivers in this area for surge... as with Katrina's surge... is the geography of the coastline acting as an almost perfect funnel for high surge. If Katrina had made landfall at the same intensity with the same duration as a cat 5 in, say, Pensacola for example... the surge would not have neared 30 feet at all, but instead it may have been more on the order of 17-20 feet.

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About the storm surge... other than CU having the correct viewpoint on this, keep in mind that one of the most prominent drivers in this area for surge... as with Katrina's surge... is the geography of the coastline acting as an almost perfect funnel for high surge. If Katrina had made landfall at the same intensity with the same duration as a cat 5 in, say, Pensacola for example... the surge would not have neared 30 feet at all, but instead it may have been more on the order of 17-20 feet.

Indeed.

Another major thing people forget is that the surge can actually pile up East of the Mississippi River much more effectively than it can West of the river, which is illustrated on storm surge maps for the region, and is quite simple to explain--

Besides the shallow shelf, the levees that protect New Orleans and the greater region from flooding are actually higher on the Mississippi side versus Lake Pontchartrain. This actually keeps the water on the eastern side of the levees from spilling over, which actually makes the storm surge even worse, as it simply keeps building up.

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If you ask me, it looks as if the low-level and the mid-level centers are still not well-aligned. Very Gustav-ish in appearance, and probably won't strengthen appreciably for another 12 hr.

It's stacked from at least 850 down with the Hurricane Hunter "eye" dropsonde. I know that's not 500mb down but if you get less than 8 kts from 850 down with chaotic wind direction. That means at least something.

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192200 2640N 08546W 8411 01435 //// +196 //// 104044 046 039 004 01

192230 2638N 08547W 8415 01429 //// +195 //// 104045 046 040 004 01

192300 2637N 08548W 8411 01429 //// +196 //// 102045 046 041 004 01

192330 2635N 08548W 8412 01424 //// +198 //// 098047 048 041 001 01

192400 2634N 08549W 8412 01417 //// +196 //// 099052 054 042 004 01

192430 2632N 08550W 8412 01415 //// +176 //// 100052 054 043 009 01

192500 2631N 08551W 8404 01418 //// +166 //// 099049 051 042 008 01

192530 2629N 08552W 8417 01399 //// +176 //// 102048 050 042 008 01

192600 2628N 08552W 8410 01406 //// +176 //// 105041 045 041 009 01

192630 2626N 08553W 8410 01399 //// +179 //// 107036 040 043 008 01

192700 2625N 08554W 8409 01397 //// +182 //// 101035 037 043 009 01

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