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Hurricane Isaac, Part 3 - Analysis and Forecasting Thread


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Tropical storm force winds beginning to overspread the lower delta. These winds are sustained in mph, extremely impressive wind field for a tropical storm at such a distance. These winds are occurring with the outermost spiral bands, which are relatively weak.

post-645-0-36807700-1346119704_thumb.png

Noticed that. Recon just took off and already is 50+ KT FL and surface right off the coast.

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It might not look great, but its actually very comparable to what the HRRR is depicting in the near future.

For example. Current Infrared:

2m5fr5y.png

Lets compare that to the HRRR OLR valid for 7z:

i41ste.png

eerily similar right?... although this is suppose to be 5 hours in the future. If we go forward to the end of the most recent HRRR run you get something like this.

1z20r3l.png

So yes, not a great presentation right now, but it could be the beginning of substancial banding we need on satellite imagery to mix out of the rest of this possible dry air.

Yeah I've been watching the HRRR actually since this morning. I do see that as well. Obviously the thing probably will gets its act together somewhat tonight, the upper level environment is getting better...I'm just a little unsure of how much. It's looked healthy at times today..only to kind of fall apart again and go back to the semi circle look. The models are all in agreement to strengthen it...just don't see a reason to really go much more than the NHC call right now. Dry air never wants to leave these things. If anything..a fascinating display of power struggle today.

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So yes, not a great presentation right now, but it could be the beginning of substantial banding we need on satellite imagery to mix out of the rest of this possible dry air.

The convective blowup on the north side is the first time that's happened since the shear vector shifted easterly, and I think it's an important sign that the forcing for vertical motion is more axisymmetric now than it was before. I think we'll see significant intensification tonight and tomorrow.

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Seems like the gap in windspeeds between FL and SFMR is getting a bit smaller.

Recon has solid 60MPH from basically the coast downward. First time we seen that good of winds over the northern side in a while.

Also like to note that the convection over Florida is falling apart as HRRR showed and should now let he shear from the northeast side drop off.

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WVUE FOX8 in New Orleans.

"We are addicted to the internet where there are web sites that you can even know what is happening with the hurricane hunter flights as they happen almost. You can see every radar frame. People can get overwhelmed with information. The truth is for most people this will just be a glorified thunderstorm"

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The convective blowup on the north side is the first time that's happened since the shear vector shifted easterly, and I think it's an important sign that the forcing for vertical motion is more axisymmetric now than it was before. I think we'll see significant intensification tonight and tomorrow.

Just for reference later:

0c0537e4b4950e7328a2e312fbc02796.gif

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Pressure down slightly..

01:17:30Z 26.950N 86.633W 694.4 mb

(~ 20.51 inHg) 3,050 meters

(~ 10,007 feet) 981.1 mb

(~ 28.97 inHg) - From 189° at 15 knots

(From the S at ~ 17.2 mph) 16.3°C

(~ 61.3°F) 12.0°C

(~ 53.6°F) 15 knots

(~ 17.2 mph) 22 knots*

(~ 25.3 mph*) 1 mm/hr*

(~ 0.04 in/hr*) 22.0 knots* (~ 25.3 mph*) 146.7%*

01:18:00Z 26.917N 86.633W 694.4 mb

(~ 20.51 inHg) 3,042 meters

(~ 9,980 feet) 980.6 mb

(~ 28.96 inHg) - From 223° at 15 knots

(From the SW at ~ 17.2 mph) 16.2°C

(~ 61.2°F) 12.4°C

(~ 54.3°F) 16 knots

(~ 18.4 mph)

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WVUE FOX8 in New Orleans.

"We are addicted to the internet where there are web sites that you can even know what is happening with the hurricane hunter flights as they happen almost. You can see every radar frame. People can get overwhelmed with information. The truth is for most people this will just be a glorified thunderstorm"

They ripped into the NHC too "They aren't that good at forcasting intensity, that's for sure"

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Serious question: does the hrrr have known strengths in the tropics? It's usually a third rate model to kill time with when storm chasing. I find it very odd to see it so much tonight. Can only guess folks are having trouble making reaches otherwise.

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I think in terms of how the satellite should look if this intensifies, we want that one convective blob to wrap around and convection to continue to increase and really expand the CDO northward. That may be tough in the short term with the environment just north of the center over the nrn Gulf a little more hostile. Perhaps towards dawn it tries a little more...I'm just not overly excited quite yet. The environment is slowly becoming better so perhaps near dawn and into tomorrow it tries to have a better CDO type appearance and organization.

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Serious question: does the hrrr have known strengths in the tropics? It's usually a third rate model to kill time with when storm chasing. I find it very odd to see it so much tonight. Can only guess folks are having trouble making reaches otherwise.

I think for a meso model..it has a decent cumulus parameters in the tropics as compared to the NAM. I think Phil even said this tonight. However, JMHO..it may be a little overzealous.

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Serious question: does the hrrr have known strengths in the tropics? It's usually a third rate model to kill time with when storm chasing. I find it very odd to see it so much tonight. Can only guess folks are having trouble making reaches otherwise.

In testing it has shown some promise with tropical cyclones. I don't have numbers in front of me, but I have sat in on the training sessions for it. That's not saying it is right on this one, but the results so far have raised my interest.

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WVUE FOX8 in New Orleans.

"We are addicted to the internet where there are web sites that you can even know what is happening with the hurricane hunter flights as they happen almost. You can see every radar frame. People can get overwhelmed with information. The truth is for most people this will just be a glorified thunderstorm"

I was just listening to him say that.

I don't know how accurate these predictions are

http://w1.weather.go...&threat=coastal

But - if they are right then the main story (which many of us already know) will be the flooding. I am surprised how much people are obsessed with whether this thing ends up with winds of 70-80-90 mph. I can understand the concern about wind - but the bigger story will be the 10-20 inches of rain and flooding.

I realize a lot of "us" are intrigued by storm structure and strengthening - will it/won't it - but from a meteorological point of view the concern is the surge and flooding - how long the fetch may be in from the southeast into areas that flood easily. Of course 10-20 inches of rain could overwhelm some areas.

Seems with a broad wind field that the build up of storm surge - combined with high tide - could make for a decent story maker.

I wonder how much of the general public focuses on storm intensity - specifically wind. I hate the NHC wind rating system. Does not tell the full story - not by far. People always want to know if it is a Cat 1 - 2 - 3 or what. It is almost like a light bulb goes on in their head if you give them the "right" number. Maybe that number is a 2 or maybe it is a 3 - depending on the person.

You don't see many people being interviewed that ask the question - so what is the storm surge going to be and how much rain are we expected

Some of the people I have seen interviewed are saying things like - ahhh it's only a tropical storm or a category 1 - not really worried.

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I was just listening to him say that.

I don't know how accurate these predictions are

http://w1.weather.go...&threat=coastal

But - if they are right then the main story (which many of us already know) will be the flooding. I am surprised how much people are obsessed with whether this thing ends up with winds of 70-80-90 mph. I can understand the concern about wind - but the bigger story will be the 10-20 inches of rain and flooding.

True.

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I think for a meso model..it has a decent cumulus parameters in the tropics as compared to the NAM. I think Phil even said this tonight. However, JMHO..it may be a little overzealous.

Lots of jargon I'm more interested in results. The model is pretty iffy in most cases I've seen.

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Serious question: does the hrrr have known strengths in the tropics? It's usually a third rate model to kill time with when storm chasing. I find it very odd to see it so much tonight. Can only guess folks are having trouble making reaches otherwise.

I haven't used it in this type of a tropical situation before, but I have to say that overall I have found the HRRR to be a quite useful tool for convective forecasting in the spring and summer for my own needs. I certainly would not refer to it as a third rate model personally. I mean, it isn't perfect by any stretch, but I think it does a pretty good job showing convective mode, strength, etc.

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I think for a meso model..it has a decent cumulus parameters in the tropics as compared to the NAM. I think Phil even said this tonight. However, JMHO..it may be a little overzealous.

It has explicit convection so no cumulus parameterization. People like its pretty output and it's run every hour, hence it's popularity.

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Lots of jargon I'm more interested in results. The model is pretty iffy in most cases I've seen.

It did great with a couple derechos around here this summer but was pretty useless most of the time when vorticity/forcing was much weaker....this probably doesn't translate at all though so whatever.

I still think a low end cat 2 is a decent guess...with something weaker much more likely than something stronger.

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