Record Hot Rain in California

[PhillipS]

A searing heat wave rare even for the Desert Southwest sent temperatures soaring to record levels on Monday, with Needles, California tying its record high for the date of 118°F (47.8°C). The temperature might have gone higher in Needles, but a thunderstorm rolled in at 3:20 pm, and by 3:56 pm PDT, rain began falling at a temperature of 115°F (46.1°C). Most of the rain evaporated, since the humidity was only 11%, and only a trace of precipitation was recorded in the rain gauge. Nevertheless, Monday's rain at 115° in Needles sets a new world record for the hottest rain in world history. I don't think many people were outside to experience to experience the feeling of rain falling at 115°, but if they were, it must have been an uncomfortable, sauna-like experience! Thanks go to Dr. Warren Blier of the NWS Monterey office for pointing out this remarkable event to me.

It is exceedingly rare to get rain when the temperature rises above 100°F, since those kind of temperatures usually require a high pressure system with sinking air that discourages rainfall. Monday's rain in Needles was due to a flow of moisture coming from the south caused by the Southwest U.S. monsoon, a seasonal influx of moisture caused by the difference in temperature between the hot desert and the cooler ocean areas surrounding Mexico to the south. According to weather records researcher Maximiliano Herrera, the previous record for hottest rain, which I blogged about in June, was a rain shower at 109°F (43°C) observed in Mecca, Saudi Arabia on June 5, 2012 and in Marrakech, Morocco on July 10, 2010. The 11% humidity that accompanied Monday's rain shower at 115° in Needles was the lowest humidity rain has ever occurred at anywhere on Earth in recorded history, according to Mr. Herrera.

Figure 1. True-color MODIS satellite image of California and Arizona taken at 1:25 pm PDT August 13, 2012. Developing thunderstorms surround Needles, CA, and the line of clouds to the southwest of the city would develop into a thunderstorm that brought rain to the city at 4 pm PDT, at a temperature of 115°F. Image credit: NASA.

[TerryM]

Good thing the weather isn't getting weird isn't it.

Terry

[ben4vols]

Good thing the weather isn't getting weird isn't it.

Terry

The weather has always been "weird". However how people translate the weather has become increasingly "weird".

[Jonger]

Good thing the weather isn't getting weird isn't it.

Terry

Nobody has bothered to measure or report on this phenomenon till now.

[WeatherRusty]

The weather has always been "weird". However how people translate the weather has become increasingly "weird".

Have you ever heard the story of the frog sitting contently in a pot of slowly warming water? It just sits there while the water eventually comes to a boil! That same frog would immediately leap out if dropped into a pot of boiling water.

If humans can not read the signs for impending danger.........

[PhillipS]

Nobody has bothered to measure or report on this phenomenon till now.

I'm not sure what point you were trying to make. Weather measurements have been taken for a very long time - even before 1979 - as evidenced by the fact that there were old records to break. And it is simply human nature to notice anomalous phenomena, including those related to weather - hottest, coldest, wettest, driest, deepest and on and on. The list of weather records is long (and contains many fascinating oddities).

If rain this hot had happened in the past where it could be observed we probably would have record of it. I started this thread simply to share an interesting news item - an item that is consistent with the idea that climate change is increasing the possibilitiy of extreme weather - but one that is just an isolated event.

[ben4vols]

Have you ever heard the story of the frog sitting contently in a pot of slowly warming water? It just sits there while the water eventually comes to a boil! That same frog would immediately leap out if dropped into a pot of boiling water.

If humans can not read the signs for impending danger.........

LOL. There is a much greater danger from the possibility of another ice age occurring than that of a little extra heat from CO2.

[aslkahuna]

As mentioned in a thread on the same subject in the General weather forum, it's very doubtful that the temperature of the rain itself was anywhere near 115F. Also, at that high of a temperature the RH is a very poor parameter to use and the dewpoint would have been a better indicator as to what was happening. When it's up around 115F if the RH is "only" 20% you are looking at a fairly healthy dewpoint and when the moisture comes in at mid levels it can be hot and dry below and still get boomers-dry boomers which most often cause dry microbursts and haboobs occur in deserts and semi arid lands worldwide and in fact I would tend to believe that occurrences like this tend to occur more often than most people think and that they have recently come to our attention primarily because more people are paying attention to what's going one. Needles CA BTW along with Thermal, Imperial, El Centro, and Yuma can see some mighty bodacious dewpoint readings when Gulf surges occur (mid 70's to low 80's). BTW such heat waves as has been occurring are anything but rare in the CO River valley area with temperatures having reached 120+ in places like Needles in the Past (in fact, Lake Havasu City shares the all time June US record of 128F with Death Valley).

Steve

[tacoman25]

Why aren't the same people who were complaining about the snow in Africa thread being in this forum complaining about this weather thread?

[aslkahuna]

Why aren't the same people who were complaining about the snow in Africa thread being in this forum complaining about this weather thread?

Because they are trying to tie this event with AGW assuming that Masters didn't already do so in his blog post. To me, this was merely an event that was uncommon though not really rare but one that had someone watching when it happened. But then again, I've only lived in desert and near desert climate regions for nearly 30 years so what do I know.

Steve

[PhillipS]

LOL. There is a much greater danger from the possibility of another ice age occurring than that of a little extra heat from CO2.

Well, since there is 0% probability of an ice age this century (or next) and 100% probability of extra heat I think you are mistaken.

But by all means keep LOLing - that's what trolls (and hyenas) do best.

[FPizz]

As mentioned in a thread on the same subject in the General weather forum, it's very doubtful that the temperature of the rain itself was anywhere near 115F. Also, at that high of a temperature the RH is a very poor parameter to use and the dewpoint would have been a better indicator as to what was happening. When it's up around 115F if the RH is "only" 20% you are looking at a fairly healthy dewpoint and when the moisture comes in at mid levels it can be hot and dry below and still get boomers-dry boomers which most often cause dry microbursts and haboobs occur in deserts and semi arid lands worldwide and in fact I would tend to believe that occurrences like this tend to occur more often than most people think and that they have recently come to our attention primarily because more people are paying attention to what's going one. Needles CA BTW along with Thermal, Imperial, El Centro, and Yuma can see some mighty bodacious dewpoint readings when Gulf surges occur (mid 70's to low 80's). BTW such heat waves as has been occurring are anything but rare in the CO River valley area with temperatures having reached 120+ in places like Needles in the Past (in fact, Lake Havasu City shares the all time June US record of 128F with Death Valley).

Steve

Very interesting post, thanks!

[TerryM]

Only recall one dry electrical storm in the 30 yrs I lived in Las Vegas, however the wife concurs that this was only one she recalls since 1963, actually had the transformer blown off the pole in my back yard. Did a fair amount of wind & lightning damage, occurred at night, lighing the night sky so well all the surrounding mountains were visible. Apparently it was the temperature that got this one into the worlds record books.

Terry

[Jonger]

Because they are trying to tie this event with AGW assuming that Masters didn't already do so in his blog post. To me, this was merely an event that was uncommon though not really rare but one that had someone watching when it happened. But then again, I've only lived in desert and near desert climate regions for nearly 30 years so what do I know.

Steve

Jeff Masters has been one of the loudest AGW voices in the business. Ironically I met the guy and had no idea who he was, but I was a fan of the site. Feb 2001 I was setting up a network at the Ann Arbor office and there was Dr. Masters and his co-founder. He gave me a T-shirt and said hi... The installation was a failure due to circumstances out of my control, but none the less it was neat seeing the office.

[QVectorman]

Why aren't the same people who were complaining about the snow in Africa thread being in this forum complaining about this weather thread?

+1

As mentioned in a thread on the same subject in the General weather forum, it's very doubtful that the temperature of the rain itself was anywhere near 115F. Also, at that high of a temperature the RH is a very poor parameter to use and the dewpoint would have been a better indicator as to what was happening. When it's up around 115F if the RH is "only" 20% you are looking at a fairly healthy dewpoint and when the moisture comes in at mid levels it can be hot and dry below and still get boomers-dry boomers which most often cause dry microbursts and haboobs occur in deserts and semi arid lands worldwide and in fact I would tend to believe that occurrences like this tend to occur more often than most people think and that they have recently come to our attention primarily because more people are paying attention to what's going one. Needles CA BTW along with Thermal, Imperial, El Centro, and Yuma can see some mighty bodacious dewpoint readings when Gulf surges occur (mid 70's to low 80's). BTW such heat waves as has been occurring are anything but rare in the CO River valley area with temperatures having reached 120+ in places like Needles in the Past (in fact, Lake Havasu City shares the all time June US record of 128F with Death Valley).

Steve

Steve I lived in Palm Desert for 3 years and we had at least 3 dry lightning storms a summer in the Coachella Valley and over 29 Palms, it's hilarious that they are getting this kind of attention now. Media loves haboobs and derechos now days, wait til the off shore wind and mountain wave events I also am fascinated by the fact that Lake Havasu is so often over looked when it typically is warmer than DV most days...even Palm Springs and Thermal beat out DV about 50% of the time for warmest place in the US on a day to day range.

[aslkahuna]

Death Valley would probably come in more often with the National daily High except that the media doesn't report it unless DV is 120F or higher during the Summer. I've been in Yuma, Bullhead City, Lake Havasu, Parker, Buckeye, Gila Bend, etc. during the Summer and have seen plenty of 115-120F temperatures-in fact, it's the rare Summer when you DON'T see 115+ readings in the Mojave and western Sonoran deserts. Yes, I've seen it sprinkle at 100F just before all hell broke loose with the microburst.

Steve

[QVectorman]

Death Valley would probably come in more often with the National daily High except that the media doesn't report it unless DV is 120F or higher during the Summer. I've been in Yuma, Bullhead City, Lake Havasu, Parker, Buckeye, Gila Bend, etc. during the Summer and have seen plenty of 115-120F temperatures-in fact, it's the rare Summer when you DON'T see 115+ readings in the Mojave and western Sonoran deserts. Yes, I've seen it sprinkle at 100F just before all hell broke loose with the microburst.

Steve

Crap...Palm Springs avg. high for the last week of July is 108...Havasu is 109...so 115 was a cake walk to reach in both places. I always checked stove pipe or the Nat. Park reading in DV and it usually is about 1 or 2 degrees cooler than LH or PS. Seems DV is geographically laid out for maximum heating in ideal synoptic conditions which under the same conditions LH and PS end up being cooler by 3 or 4 degrees but on any given day LH and PS perform better in the typical less than ideal synoptic conditions.

[ben4vols]

Well, since there is 0% probability of an ice age this century (or next) and 100% probability of extra heat I think you are mistaken.

But by all means keep LOLing - that's what trolls (and hyenas) do best.

Since you have no idea what you are talking about, regarding an ability to predict an ice age, you will get a much deserved LOL.

[Diego]

Curiously, the temp. only dropped to 102F as a result of the Th (presumably from evap. cooling and or downdrafts), before rising again.

http://www.wundergro...eq_statename=NA

[WeatherRusty]

Since you have no idea what you are talking about, regarding an ability to predict an ice age, you will get a much deserved LOL.

You are asking to be placed on ignore if your not there already.

Do you have any idea how long it would take for an ice age to develop? Try thousands of years. There will be no ice age in the next century or two.

Little Ice Age conditions don't count, as in that case we are only talking less than one full degree Celsius. A full blown ice age would be -5-6C globally.

The orbital cycles which promote NH glaciation are not aligned such as to produce an ice age for many thousands of years.

[tacoman25]

Probably because it's tied in with a rare stretch of hot weather in that region.

You can also notice how many heat records have fallen since the 90's.

Ask anyone in southeast California and southern Arizona about temperatures in the summer, and you'll likely get a similar response - it's always hot. And you're also likely to not get an argument. However, the first two weeks of August 2012 has brought back bad memories of the latter half of August 2011 - that is, almost unbearable heat. The biggest question is: How unusual has this first 2 weeks of August been? The answer: Very rare. And the remainder of this web page will summarize how rare, and list the multitude of records set in the first 14 days of the month.

http://www.wrh.noaa....ugheat_2012.php

Summer SW temps

The snow in south Africa was also tied to a rare streth of cold weather.

I'm sorry, but I call it like I see it, and this thread is a clear example of hypocrisy and double standards. Compare the original post of this thread to the original post of the other one and objectively tell me how this one is a climate thread but the other one just a weather thread. Objectively, you can't.

[Voyager]

BTW such heat waves as has been occurring are anything but rare in the CO River valley area with temperatures having reached 120+ in places like Needles in the Past (in fact, Lake Havasu City shares the all time June US record of 128F with Death Valley).

Steve

I was in Bullhead City the day that Havasu hit that 128. I wonder if it was warmer or cooler in BHC that day as I never heard an official temperature report for them.

[Jonger]

Probably because it's tied in with a rare stretch of hot weather in that region.

You can also notice how many heat records have fallen since the 90's.

Ask anyone in southeast California and southern Arizona about temperatures in the summer, and you'll likely get a similar response - it's always hot. And you're also likely to not get an argument. However, the first two weeks of August 2012 has brought back bad memories of the latter half of August 2011 - that is, almost unbearable heat. The biggest question is: How unusual has this first 2 weeks of August been? The answer: Very rare. And the remainder of this web page will summarize how rare, and list the multitude of records set in the first 14 days of the month.

http://www.wrh.noaa....ugheat_2012.php

Summer SW temps

Hold the phone here... Is that a temp record of the entire southwest in one graph? I won't go any further in my judgement until I get an answer on this.

[tacoman25]

There is nothing hypocritical about this thread. If you read the wunderground article, you'll see that

it's mentioned in the context of the record heat that has been occurring in that region. It's probably

better to post in here since the discussion will be about various records associated with a warming

climate.

Doesn't matter what you want to associate it with, it's still a thread in a climate change forum devoted to a single weather event/phenomenon that may or may not be linked to climate change. Any single weather event COULD be linked to a warming climate or may not be, but to accept this thread because the event itself seems to fit better with a warming climate than snow in S. Africa is logically flawed.

The basis of condemning the other thread was that it was a weather event, indeed linked to a cold weather pattern. This thread is about a weather event linked to a hot weather pattern.

You'd have to have blinders on to not see the irony and hypocrisy here.

[tacoman25]

From the Snow and Record Cold in S. Africa thread....

Regardless, the above point is all that needs to be said in this thread. Individual weather events cannot prove or disprove a climate trend.

- Vandy

Because a single isolated weather event says virtually nothing about climate change. This applies to any event.

- Msgaldo

If it's just a weather story then he should have posted it in the weather forum. What was the reason for posting it in the Climate Change forum?

- Sundog

It would be at least more justifiable than a single weather event. (In response to what would have justified the thread, like maybe a record cold winter - which actually was mentioned as a possibility for one African nation)

- Mallow

No comment from any of these posters in this thread.

[tacoman25]

You are the one talking about the snow thread. Again, read the post on wunderground and tell me exactly what you find objectionable about it. We have been discussing various heat records in this forum lately so I don't see the disconnect.

Yes, because it was a recent thread on here that was dismissed by a number of posters because it was about a single weather event. I cannot be any more clear.

This is a thread dedicated to a single weather event in Needles, CA where rain apparently fell briefly at 115F. To say that it belongs in a climate change forum more than the other thread just because it was a HOT weather event is completely ludicrous and illogical.

See the statements I quoted from the snow thread. They speak for themselves.

[rygar]

So what does that have to do with discussing an occurrence during a record hot pattern in the SW US?

This is your own Quote:

may or may not be linked to climate change. Any single weather event COULD be linked to a warming climate or may not be,

The climate change forum has been discusssing the various heat records across the US recently so

it's not unreasonable that another one is started. It's an interesting weather stat that people probably

like to talk about. No one presented this as otherwise.But for some reason you protest very loudly when even

the hint of a link to weather and climate are mentioned.

Yes or no bluewave, is this event related to AGW.

[FPizz]

This thread and the other both don't belong here. It wastes space...even though half of the other threads are a waste on here since after a page or two it is the same 8 people typing the same thing that they have been typing for years.

[donsutherland1]

As there has been so much discussion about this event, I’ll provide my own thoughts.

To the extent that climate change is increasing the frequency of extreme heat, it is creating more opportunities for the kind of event discussed in this thread. The atmospheric processes that created the rain are not new nor is there any evidence that they are unnatural. The overall synoptic pattern is also a familiar one in terms of being a hot one.

Where climate change can enter the discussion concerns whether (1) the synoptic pattern responsible is growing more common due to the impact of warming on complex ocean-atmospheric coupling; (2) whether increased evaporation resulting from rising average temperatures (very likely driven by AGW) is leading to drier soil, which, in turn, could feed back to provide a further boost to temperatures; and (3) that the continuing positive energy imbalance is leaving more heat in the earth’s climate system to be shifted via the synoptic processes and oceanic cycles.

At present, the answer to the first factor is uncertain. The second relates to an established feedback and there is scientific literature that discusses the dry soil-temperature relationship (including the impact of climate change e.g., Dai's just published "Increasing drought under global warming in observations and models"). The third is related to basic physics. Net additions of energy lead to heating (oceans, land/melting ice, and atmosphere). That extra heat is distributed via synoptic processes (weather events) and oceanic cycles.

Needless to say, the event by itself says little or nothing about climate change. However, should such events occur more frequently, their increased incidence could be a consequence of the growing opportunities for rain to fall in extreme heat (due to the rising probability of extreme heat). The rising probability of extreme heat can be demonstrated through statistics.

The statistical changes can largely be explained by AGW. That the ocean, land masses, and atmosphere are all warming indicates that energy is being added to the earth’s climate system . Otherwise, warming would be balanced by cooling. Instead, the globe is warming as a whole.

As the sun has not radically increased its irradiance or otherwise fundamentally changed its behavior and volcanic activity has not materially changed, something else is responsible. Given the properties of anthropogenic gases and the ability to estimate the energy related to each of those forcings, the positive energy imbalance can mainly be explained by those anthropogenic gases. It is that link that connects the recent event to AGW (synoptic event occurring in the context of a rising probability of extreme heat on account of AGW).

The recent widespread snowfall in South Africa also says little or nothing about climate change. Moreover, it is far more difficult to attribute that event to climate change, as one cannot discern whether the cold was the result of a transfer of heat (leaving South Africa unseasonably cold) or some other factor that might have been influenced by climate change (e.g., the uncertainty related to altered synoptic patterns).

[PhillipS]

Doesn't matter what you want to associate it with, it's still a thread in a climate change forum devoted to a single weather event/phenomenon that may or may not be linked to climate change. Any single weather event COULD be linked to a warming climate or may not be, but to accept this thread because the event itself seems to fit better with a warming climate than snow in S. Africa is logically flawed.

The basis of condemning the other thread was that it was a weather event, indeed linked to a cold weather pattern. This thread is about a weather event linked to a hot weather pattern.

You'd have to have blinders on to not see the irony and hypocrisy here.

Your pearl clutching is noted. Now do you have anything of substance to offer?