Ginx snewx Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Well that's a good thing. It takes a wake up call for this to happen...but I'm sure people are much better prepared now than they were a year ago. Other than the typical inconviences...I'm fine without power for several days. Have a grill and plenty of camping equipment if need be for cooking etc. The one thing that is scary is losing power in the winter. Luckily I never had to endure what the foks in ORH county and srn NH had to endure during the '08 icestorm, but my family lost power for almost two days after the Dec '03 snow storm...and it wasn't fun. We went everywhere for a generator...luckily found one and had an electrician hook it up to our furnace. Camping is fun as long as you have water, can not imagine if a major city lost its ability to pump water and sewage. You spoke of 1985, Gloria times for me. Biggest difference I saw with Irene. State and towns ability to clear roads, power lines, manpower and coordination. What is amazing is Homeland security has literally spent billions on preparation and training but the coordination was virtually nil. Yes I am a huge critic, many in this state poo pooed us in ECT when we pointed out how archaic and inconsistent the response was, that is until Rocktober storm. Keep in mind the frustration was not just at Utilities. I foresee complete chaos if 38 ever strikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Yeah I cannot recall long outages for a large population area prior to 2008 ice storm going back all through the 1990s with the exception of 1991 on Cape Cod/adjacent areas during Hurricane Bob. December 1992 caused some issues here and out on the Cape, but they generally werent more than a day or two...only pockets had to deal with it longer. Interior CT had some outage issues in the Nov 2002 ice storm, but again, not a huge deal on the whole. The rest of SNE really had been lucky since Gloria. I do think that large gap between serious outages made a lot of people unprepared....and it doesn't mean generators either (though they are awesome)...just simple basics like how to keep warm without your gas heat, plenty of lighting sources, and preparing food without electricity. Some of the stories I heard after October were almost comical...like how could people be so dumb? Hopefully the power companies (particilarly CT L&P) are more prepared next time too. Obviously another '38 would be just monstrous devastation that people can't expect their power back in a couple days...but the next time an Irene, or an ice storm, or a wet snow storm knocks out power to half a million or a million homes...hopefully the wake up call has already been heard. Manpower CL&P has drastically cut line workers since the late 1980s when they had 430 line workers. Today, that number is less than half, at 190, even as CL&P's customers have grown from 850,900 when Hurricane Gloria hit in 1985 to 1.2 million today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapturedNature Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Well that's a good thing. It takes a wake up call for this to happen...but I'm sure people are much better prepared now than they were a year ago. Other than the typical inconviences...I'm fine without power for several days. Have a grill and plenty of camping equipment if need be for cooking etc. The one thing that is scary is losing power in the winter. Luckily I never had to endure what the foks in ORH county and srn NH had to endure during the '08 icestorm, but my family lost power for almost two days after the Dec '03 snow storm...and it wasn't fun. We went everywhere for a generator...luckily found one and had an electrician hook it up to our furnace. Yeah, heat can be tricky if you don't have a stove/fireplace. After October, we purchased an extra oil lantern both for light and heat. I found that having two of them in one room was enough to make the room tolerable. I'm thinking about getting a ventless propane heater that would provide enough heat for most of my house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbutts Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I think if we're talking about a 1938 repeat people will be worrying about more than just power restoration. Homes will have structural damage and be leaking water. Roofs get hammered in high winds and debris. Roads will be impassible, gas and food stores will be shut down (how many days of food do you have?). Priority will go to the coast where people will be dead and some areas obliterated. People will be injured and stranded. In other words, an actual emergency where power issues are secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapturedNature Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Remember, generators need gasoline (or diesel) You can only run them so long without having to get to a gas station, and if there is no power there...tough luck I added an extra 5 gallon container to my collection after October so I have 4. I only keep one filled because the gas will spoil by the time I get to it. I figure after 4 or 5 days that you should be able to make your way to a place that does have gas/power. Diesel, especially if it's hooked up to your oil tank, could be a LONG, LONG time. I'm lucky in that my day job is in a city and if my power (Internet) is out at home, I have to go in so I can get fuel there and return home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radarman Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 We were a week without power in Oct. Frankly I was disappointed when the power came back on. Fortunately it was warm afterward and the nights weren't unbearable. The biggest issue for us was the lack of running water associated with an electric well pump. Most folks in urban settings will not have this problem as they'll be on city water. The bigger issue might be the cleanliness of said water, but again, many in the city have natural gas and will be able to boil it. Contaminated water for those with electric stoves and now you've got an issue. Or if sewers back up, etc. I'm under no illusion that things would go swimmingly (pardon the pun) in the cities, but I think most in rural settings could fare reasonably well with a little ingenuity, a good attitude, and the willingness to take care of your neighbor. Also, the ideal setup for extended power loss in the country is to use propane for heat, dryer, and stove in normal times with an inground tank, and a propane generator that can be attached as needed to a Y splitter. You could go for months like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 One "good" thing about losing power due to a hurricane vs an ice storm - heat is not a big worry. In 2008, we had no power, water, heat for 5+ days, so we got out of dodge. In a Cat 3 1938 type of storm, where can you go? I guess a big hotel if they have generators, but those rooms will be hard to come by. I worry most about my family in RI, but they are pretty willing to vacate in the event of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapturedNature Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I think if we're talking about a 1938 repeat people will be worrying about more than just power restoration. Homes will have structural damage and be leaking water. Roofs get hammered in high winds and debris. Roads will be impassible, gas and food stores will be shut down (how many days of food do you have?). Priority will go to the coast where people will be dead and some areas obliterated. People will be injured and stranded. In other words, an actual emergency where power issues are secondary. I think the rule of thumb is 72 hours....you're right in that most people aren't prepared for that. I figure the first 24 hours you could basically be on your own unless you're in a neighborhood and in that even you need to be able to secure your home (tarps will help) and help out where you can. One thing I learned after October was to carry a chain saw and some rope the first day or two. You never know what you might encounter and group of guys can clear a path past a block pretty quick. Slowly things start opening up quicker than you would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radarman Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I think the rule of thumb is 72 hours....you're right in that most people aren't prepared for that. I figure the first 24 hours you could basically be on your own unless you're in a neighborhood and in that even you need to be able to secure your home (tarps will help) and help out where you can. One thing I learned after October was to carry a chain saw and some rope the first day or two. You never know what you might encounter and group of guys can clear a path past a block pretty quick. Slowly things start opening up quicker than you would think. Absolutely. I cleared Rt. 2 in the high country east of Pittsfield the day after the ice storm in more than one place. A couple guys can make a huge dent quickly. Of course we had lines of cars sitting there in the heat waiting as we rolled logs off the road, blazing past us at the first sign of an opening, just to be stuck again at the next downed tree... Such is life. The quicker you embrace the fact that whatever you were planning on doing that day is out and throw on the flannel and Timbs the easier it gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Yeah, heat can be tricky if you don't have a stove/fireplace. After October, we purchased an extra oil lantern both for light and heat. I found that having two of them in one room was enough to make the room tolerable. I'm thinking about getting a ventless propane heater that would provide enough heat for most of my house. I have two, awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I think the rule of thumb is 72 hours....you're right in that most people aren't prepared for that. I figure the first 24 hours you could basically be on your own unless you're in a neighborhood and in that even you need to be able to secure your home (tarps will help) and help out where you can. One thing I learned after October was to carry a chain saw and some rope the first day or two. You never know what you might encounter and group of guys can clear a path past a block pretty quick. Slowly things start opening up quicker than you would think. I actually could not drive off of winter hill initially the morning of Dec 12, 2008...but by coincidence another car was trying to come up the hill (for what reason I don't know) and the two of us were able to move a huge branch that had come down in the middle of the road...we dragged it just far enough for one car to pass partially on the curb. A few people with chain saws and rope as you said can do some serious damage to blocked roads. That said, it would obviously be quite a mess for a long time in some areas. In more urban settings, most people don't even own a chainsaw or aren't used to dealing with moving tree branches. The biggest danger would probably be contaminated drinking water in combination with gas lines being damaged...that could get ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 In Gloria, I don't recall people calling for the heads of utility higher ups like they did with Irene. Nowadays people can't get on their lap tops and flip out. Smartphones are slower when this happens and cries erupt when people can't get on facebook or tweet. Nobody cared in the 80s when all they missed was Dynasty or Dallas. Imho, it's more sociological than it is culpability differences... The Utilities were just as greed-oriented negligent douches back then too, only it was simply a matter of being not as readily noticeable. People can hang around with one another, tell stories, hell ...even make some menial fun out of and at the circumstance in the 1980s. in 2012 that's impossible. People are too over-exposed to advantages they didn't have back then, advantage uniquely dependent on the grid. They are overstimulated and "dialed in" so to speak - cutting them off is an en mass powder keg with a lit fuse. Remove the stimulus all at once and there'll be hell to pay. there's no way to prove this but if the 1980s culture was as endemic to the 'big internet orgasm' as we are now connected, the same uproar would have happened then. It's not just the feel-goodies of it all, either. so much e-commerce, a term developed SINCE the 1980s depends on power and the grid. it's just not even a comparable culture when one gets profound about it, probably an incomparability that most are not even aware has evolved over the last 20-30 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 We were a week without power in Oct. Frankly I was disappointed when the power came back on. Fortunately it was warm afterward and the nights weren't unbearable. The biggest issue for us was the lack of running water associated with an electric well pump. Most folks in urban settings will not have this problem as they'll be on city water. The bigger issue might be the cleanliness of said water, but again, many in the city have natural gas and will be able to boil it. Contaminated water for those with electric stoves and now you've got an issue. Or if sewers back up, etc. I'm under no illusion that things would go swimmingly (pardon the pun) in the cities, but I think most in rural settings could fare reasonably well with a little ingenuity, a good attitude, and the willingness to take care of your neighbor. Also, the ideal setup for extended power loss in the country is to use propane for heat, dryer, and stove in normal times with an inground tank, and a propane generator that can be attached as needed to a Y splitter. You could go for months like that. Many of us were Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltysenior Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 all the prep, food, water, the restoration of power,road clearing,ect. does little for you when your roof is missing........that was the big thing down in fla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I wonder what building codes say about that here in New England? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I wonder what building codes say about that here in New England? I found a chart somewhere about the codes for wind. I've personally seen the homes built with better roofs down the Cape. There are these tie down tings that keep the roof strapped to the house. IIRC the homes are made to deal with 120-130 mph winds.....or so they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltysenior Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I wonder what building codes say about that here in New England? the age, the condition ,and the instalation of a roof's asphalt shingle was the biggest cause of roof failure.......the shingle blew away,letting rain get to particle board type roof decking...after the decking was soaked , it had no strenght to hold the rafters in place and away went part of your roof.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbutts Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 In FL hurricane straps are required. It keeps the entire roof from blowing way in one piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltysenior Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 In FL hurricane straps are required. It keeps the entire roof from blowing way in one piece. 98% of the damaged homes had hurricane ties,,,,,the trusses and rafters stayed , but the roof sheeting sorta like ''melted'' and went away or just plain leaked because of shingle failure.........almost all long lasting problems were from roofs letting water in....then the ceilings fall , the insulation sags , the sheet rock gets wet, and when every things get better you get mildew and your policy gets canceled.......... and some want a hurricane ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
free_man Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 and some want a hurricane ????? I'll take two, Carol/Edna would be perfect. Edna a little bit west. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NECT Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 98% of the damaged homes had hurricane ties,,,,,the trusses and rafters stayed , but the roof sheeting sorta like ''melted'' and went away or just plain leaked because of shingle failure.........almost all long lasting problems were from roofs letting water in....then the ceilings fall , the insulation sags , the sheet rock gets wet, and when every things get better you get mildew and your policy gets canceled.......... and some want a hurricane ????? Not I. When truly sever tstorms roll through and there are 70+ mph gusts, there's some pretty significant damage, and usually in a relatively small area. Sustained winds of 100 mph or so over a wide area would be memorable to say the least. We had a few feet of snow in 1/11, and buildings and older houses collapsed, or were damaged by ice dams. The older houses that survived would not fair so well with sustained hurricane force winds, and I'm sure some newer houses wouldn't fair so well either. It's one thing to be stuck in your house with no power and roads covered with trees and wires. It's a bit different to be stuck in your house staring at the sky with no power and no way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzucker Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I don't think people on here really want another 1938. Some are excited because of the meteorological rarity of such an event, but the devastation in such a populous area would be unthinkable. Those who have lived through true hurricanes, like Salty, know that we should not be enthused by the prospect of another Long Island Express. I'm all for rooting for snowstorms and anomalous cold in winter, but I think the effects of a Category 3 with New England in the front right quadrant would be beyond catastrophic. Numerous homes would be destroyed, and with their destruction lives would be lost, and the forests of New England would suffer irreparable damage. No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Some just want days and days of high dewpoints... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryslot Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 And then some of us can't wait for winter storms to track Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 And then some of us can't wait for winter storms to track Been so dang long... since October Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryslot Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Been so dang long... since October I hope it waits until Nov, Fook the oct storms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I hope it waits until Nov, Fook the oct storms I hope we get smoked in October. I'm not afraid of October storms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I hope we get smoked in October. I'm not afraid of October storms. 1979 and 2011 say Fear Me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 A nice Novie snow is always welcomed. At least the environment actually looks like winter, rather than green leaves still on the trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryslot Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I hope we get smoked in October. I'm not afraid of October storms. You can have it Will, I don't fear it, I just have no use for it, At least late novie we start to see some freezing up here and if its after thanksgiving we can keep it on the ground most times for the rest of the winter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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